Will Labour pay Jnr doctors the ridculous 35% they are demanding?

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

This is unaffordable and that is a fact
So what promises are the Labour lot making, that is if they have the time to discuss this other than what 's happening to Dainae Abbott

If us the taxpayers could afford the 35%, then I'd be happy to sanction the rise but we can't afford that

FIVE days of strike - this will have another massive impact on those waiting for appointments and those having them cancelled. The doctors knew what the pay and conditions were when they decided to take the job and the strikes should be outlawed. The police can't strike, the armed forces can't strike, so why are doctors allowed to strike??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-69072640

Hi again

As stated clearly by me I was advised that I had over "doctors re the post you quoted earlier

Yes, I do have an influence over many, possibly millions as I am often quoted.

Doctors should not be striking and I hope whoever gets into number 10 has the balls to put in a no-strike clause for all NHS staff. The police have managed as well as the armed services, so why not NHS!!

HTH

No that doesn't help as you didn't answer the question 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yes, I do have an influence over many, possibly millions as I am often quoted

dear lord do you actually really really THINK that - like really? You and your delusions of grandeur again

Do you have any other facts?
I do love them.

Interesting that the police and particularly the armed services have serious recruitment and retention problems as well as the NHS. Its almost as if a no strike clause doesn't solve not being people a reasonable wage for their work.

@

@DistinguishedSocialCommentator

In response to your post :
"refused leave becuse of rota"

So you want others to suffer, change their days, and times at work just because your DD wants time off.

"piss off to OZ"
That is historical and nothing new

FACT - doctors and nurses come over from "OZ" along with other professions to work in England,, right!!

What's your point?

So what is your DD grossing per week (I bet you may would love to work 12 hours daily to pay off mortgages, save up but don't get the opps

FACT, leaving England to work abroad in many profession is a HISTORICAL fact,

She asked to book a week off and was only permitted to take Monday Tuesday Thursday and Friday . I'm guessing you think that is quite ok .
She was not able to book leave in advance to attend a wedding at which she was a bridesmaid and had to wait until about one month before the wedding to eventually be told she could have the day off but would have to go in at 8pm to work . I'm guessing you think that is ok too.

Many of her peers are relocating out of the uk - some may come back some may not . Meanwhile we have very long waiting lists and pay locum drs a fortune to cover the gap.

My real point is that she's trained for 6 years - is still training as a specialty dr, has worked in very difficult conditions throughout the pandemic but is treated without any respect . That is a fact and is unrelated to pay but is a similar issue . If you respect and value the service that someone provides you pay them for it appropriately. I think that is quite simple . It's a shame you don't get it .

Todays fact - real life not anecdotal
I had a meeting with my GP trainee who is supposed to be coming to me in 2025 to finish her training. She wants me to help validate her foundation training to keep her options open. Why?

1. She's from Norway, trained in Czech and worked in U.K. but would like to go back to Norway
2. The pressure of work in the U.K. compared to Norway is excessive
3. There is no guarantee that when she completes GP training there will be a job for her (There are more GPs being trained than jobs available)

So she's going to leave and so will her husband who has almost completed his radiology consultant training.
The U.K. loses 2 highly trained doctors to another country because they don't value them and the working conditions are shocking.
I'm feeing so sad today 😢
This is reality and why JDs are striking not only for higher pay but for better working conditions and to feel valued and not just a name on a rota.

Genuine question - how can there be no job available when there is such a shortage of GPs? Or is it that the available spaces (I.e. funded spaces) are filled, so despite people not being able to get a GP appointment, all the vacancies are filled and hence it is not regarded as a shortage?

I do know there are more GPs today per 100,000 people than there were in the 80s, however in the 80s, I could get an appointment. It is a ridiculous situation.

"its a shame you don't get it."

It is indeed a shame you don't get it as the fact remains that money is always at the crux of everything.

Fact, the Tories would pay the jun docs 35% as it would get them a couple of million of extra votes. Fact, the reason they are not doing that as it would open the floodgates to pay rises in the public and private sectors #

FACT - No political party will enter number 10 and give anyone 35% and that is a massive fact.

FACT - often those born in England are often only fluent in English. Therefore, NHS staff leaving for other countries as I stated the fact has always been historical ie going to other English speaking place - yes, some, possibly many return

FACT, masses of nurse and docs from other countries in England along with PT's and OT's, coming from Australia, N/Zealnad, SA etc etc

If it was simple as pay this group of people with no consequences the docsthat are going on strike after strike - as I stated, the Tories would have paid them. The consequences are detailed as above

FACT - no one twists anyone arm to tell them what job they need to go for/do!!

Fact - if I was unhappy with my T&C at my place of employment - I'd either accept it or leave, simples

The 15 pounds an hour touted about is misleading IMO as people have to look at their - don't take my word for it - see below as its averages that are more realistic

For junior doctors, basic pay will be between £32,397 and £63,162, with average total full-time earnings likely to be around £41,300 for those in their first year of practice, and £71,300 for specialty registrars towards the end of their training (Table 1).24 Aug 2023

Exploring the earnings of NHS doctors in England
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/exploring-the-earnings-of-nhs-doctors-in-england#:~:text=For%20junior%20doctors%2C%20basic%20pay,their%20training%20(Table%201).

Because govt don't fund the service to have enough GPs

Junior doctors deserve to be paid fairly and if we continue to treat them so poorly then they will just leave the NHS.

For heavens sake - do you really want to have nobody to go to if you’ve got really worrying symptoms?

‘Unaffordable’ my arse.

The reason the "police has retention problems" is the fact that their job is getting more dangerous by the second and at times, they can do no right in the eyes of some. When an office has been attacked by a lout/s - he/she manges to tackle the lout/s to the ground - the louts often cite, "unreasonable force used."

A police officer will hold down the lout but if the lout escpaes the officers grasp, many high on drink/drugs or just thighs will give the office a good kicking - its easy to say "unreasonable force " was used at times when you are not fighting to save yourself and carry out your duty

NHS - retention problems - Every NHS surgery we have belonged to have has the same staff of donkeys years unless they get new trainess that are there for a few months. Even the hospitals we visit, you seem to get the same docs - so I'm not sure what your point is other than alsmot every profession has a retention problem in teachers, supermarket/shop staff etc, not sure what you are saying

@HappiestSleeping

I do know there are more GPs today per 100,000 people than there were in the 80s, however in the 80s, I could get an appointment. It is a ridiculous situation.

GPs used to generally work full time. Now most seem to only do part time hours, some as little as one or two sessions a week. "Family friendly" you know! We should have doubled the number of training places back in the 90s when it was obvious that large numbers of trainees were intending to work only part time!

You were the one advising them to leave and do something else, I was just letting you know what a stupid thing that was. I realise no one is actually going to take your advice.

This is a quote from your post "Therefore, if the doctors are unhappy with their pay - get another job" Your words.

wrong qoute

You are crazy if you think it is a good idea to under pay doctors and then if they dare to ask for what they are worth the answer is to tell them to do something else.

FACT We need doctors.

A police officer will hold down the lout but if the lout escpaes the officers grasp, many high on drink/drugs or just thighs will give the office a good kicking

Am I the only one who wants to get high just on thighs and give an office a good kicking?

Your words.

Writing the word "fact" at the beginning of your sentences does not make the content of the sentence true I'm afraid.

Therefore, if the doctors are unhappy with their pay - get another job

There it is. HTH.

Labour will give you this if they manage to slip in vai back door with coalition chums

TBH, its not very different from what has been offered AFAIK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66215122

I suggest you look back on your posts, you said talking was pointless, both for the Tories and for Labour.

So why aren't they talking and avoiding the strikes in the first place?

Why isn't there a 15% pay offer on the table?

Scottish doc's settled on 12% plus a promise to look at pay and conditions.

The 100s of billions spent on public services can be spent differently.....

Yes, in any job, if I was not happy, I'd either put up with it and shut up or more like me and many others that have excellent skills we can adapt to many jobs, I'd leave, fact

Therefore, if anyone in any job is not happy, leave and get a job you are happy in, simples!!

Most people would be more than happy with avg 9% and that is a massive fact
Striking now looks to me like political reasons and the patients suffer again
Dont take my word for it see below from the BBC
"15! quid - look at the averages I posted - nothing like the "15! claimed

The BMA has asked for a 35% pay rise to make up for what it says is 15 years of below-inflation pay rises. Junior doctors received a pay rise averaging nearly 9% in the last financial year. The BMA walked out of talks last year during which an extra 3% pay rise on top was discussed.22 hours ago

Junior doctors call five-day strike just before election - BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-69072640