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General election 2024

If Labour get in, will they reverse Brexit?

214 replies

VeryGoodVeryNiceChickenNugget · 24/05/2024 08:43

I have no idea, so is it possible/likely?

I'm specifically thinking about free movement within Europe. At the moment its very hard to get a visa to move, permanently move, anywhere in the EU.

OP posts:
DramaLlamaBangBang · 24/05/2024 11:07

SheilaFentiman · 24/05/2024 10:06

I am a Labour voter and a Remainer and I stand by what I said.

I also think corbyn’s lukewarm position and Leaver leanings were a disservice to the country.

Happy to agree to disagree.

I agree. Corbyn was a long time Brexiteer, but his apparently legendary ' principles' went out the window when Momentum came knocking. He couldn't give any good reasons for Brexit ( despite that being his stance for 40 years) yet was clearly not remain, so decided to be less than useless to the Remain campaign. Labour under Corbyn partly own the shambles we are in today due to their voting against any trade deals made by Teresa May, and voting with the ERG.

Dollenganger333 · 24/05/2024 11:21

beguilingeyes · 24/05/2024 11:00

That's a little disingenuous. Labour would never have called a referendum. This was Cameron's big mistake and was mainly ushered in by the likes of Johnson and Gove lying through their teeth.

Exactly this. David Cameron only called the referendum to keep the Conservatives in power. He didn’t expect Brexit to happen imo - that’s why he was crying(!)

caramac04 · 24/05/2024 11:31

I’m not convinced we would be accepted back tbh and if we were it would take a long time to sort out.
What a stupid result the referendum brought.

DracoDormiensNumquamTittilandum · 24/05/2024 11:38

LakeTiticaca · 24/05/2024 09:16

No because a democratic vote can't be overturned . What we need now, as promised, is to get out of the ECHR, and make our own bill of rights

Obviously the Brexit vote can't be overturned but you think a referendum is binding forever? Of course it isn't. At some point any government could take us into negotiations to rejoin with or without a referendum. In fact it would be absurd to try to have another referendum- if and when this happens it will not be because the public had a single issue vote on the matter.

Workawayxx · 24/05/2024 11:49

I think it'll be politically difficult for them to go against the referendum unfortunately. I do hope they'll move closer to the EU though in whatever way possible. Plus huge complications of rejoining (inevitably on worse terms than before).

VerlynWebbe · 24/05/2024 11:49

Before the vote, I remember some Brexit-voters I know saying that the EU was only trying to get us to remain because they needed the UK's money, that the entire EU project was close to collapse. This seemed to be a common enough view among those who enjoyed Farage.

Obviously, what has happened instead is that the UK has fucked itself seventeen times over and the EU persists.

I just can't imagine that the EU would want the UK in its current state, even if it were possible to be readmitted, which it is not.

HappiestSleeping · 24/05/2024 11:59

VeryGoodVeryNiceChickenNugget · 24/05/2024 10:41

Yes but nothing has been done about illegal mass migration INTO the UK, which is the main issue people voted for, IMO. Its got worse.

We haven't considered those countries as they are too far, we want to be nearby as our parents are getting older.

Of course it hasn't. If you think about it logically, the UK did not exercise all the allowable rules when it was part of the EU, so it could be argued that the Conservatives were doing a bad job when they had partial control. Leaving has given them full control, essentially meaning that they are free to fuck it up completely, which they have.

Additionally, we have lost the support of France and now have to pay them to do what they used to do for free.

3luckystars · 24/05/2024 12:03

My own feeling (and I might be wrong and frequently am) is that it will have to be reversed at some stage, now or in the future anyway.

Arlanymor · 24/05/2024 12:06

There isn’t a mechanism to opt back in, it would take years of negotiation with member states let alone a further referendum in the UK. Plus we would no longer have our double veto so our voice and influence would be much less than before. Also Keir Starmer has said: “There is no case for reentering the EU.” So can’t see that changing as a policy stance any time soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66887576#:~:text=Sir%20Keir%20Starmer%20has%20insisted,of%20wanting%20to%20reverse%20Brexit.

Sir Keir Starmer

Keir Starmer: No case for going back into EU

Conservative ministers have accused the Labour leader of wanting to reverse Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66887576#:~:text=Sir%20Keir%20Starmer%20has%20insisted,of%20wanting%20to%20reverse%20Brexit.

Dibblydoodahdah · 24/05/2024 12:06

VeryGoodVeryNiceChickenNugget · 24/05/2024 10:36

Off all the problems, this is their main concern? Its a fucking joke.

I don’t think it is their main concern but they know they can use it to manipulate the electorate by going on about tax breaks and making them think they can get one over on “rich” people.

bluelavender · 24/05/2024 12:07

This is a big year of elections- and its interesting in Europe that while we are likely to end up with a centre left gov; others are moving centre right. I don't think we will be able to rejoin in the next few years for all the good arguments currently made (and more!) but I can see us having closer working on both trade and defence

EasternStandard · 24/05/2024 12:08

bluelavender · 24/05/2024 12:07

This is a big year of elections- and its interesting in Europe that while we are likely to end up with a centre left gov; others are moving centre right. I don't think we will be able to rejoin in the next few years for all the good arguments currently made (and more!) but I can see us having closer working on both trade and defence

It is. And the US one will be a big decider on how much against the trend we will be.

SherrieElmer · 24/05/2024 12:09

Nah, the EU would not have us. Why would they ? They seem to be doing fine and by let us in they would be inheriting all our problems.

Tessasanderson · 24/05/2024 12:11

They have absolutely no right to 're join' the EU. It was voted on, a result was reached and we had Brexit. It would be absurd for them to even attempt to do so.

What they can and i would encourage any party to do at any given time is to give the public the opportunity to vote again. IF the majority want to rejoin then that is a different kettle of fish.

bluelavender · 24/05/2024 12:14

EasternStandard · 24/05/2024 12:08

It is. And the US one will be a big decider on how much against the trend we will be.

Yes; and the unpredictability of another Trump administration if he gets in (!) may help to pull Europe (inc the UK) more together to collaborate.

radiatordrama · 24/05/2024 12:14

I mean, they said they won't.

AmusedMaker · 24/05/2024 12:20

What makes you think the EU would want us back?
they’d probably tell us to fuck off. I mean, we’re such an insignificant shit hole ( as one remain voter charmingly described us ) I’m sure they’ll manage fine without us.

Not that we will ever ask to rejoin.

EasternStandard · 24/05/2024 12:22

AmusedMaker · 24/05/2024 12:20

What makes you think the EU would want us back?
they’d probably tell us to fuck off. I mean, we’re such an insignificant shit hole ( as one remain voter charmingly described us ) I’m sure they’ll manage fine without us.

Not that we will ever ask to rejoin.

I don’t think this is the case actually. On reading various statements from EU

Mirabai · 24/05/2024 12:22

Sadly no. I think Rishi is bailing asap partly to avoid the consequences of the end of the Brexit transition.

Chersfrozenface · 24/05/2024 12:23

VeryGoodVeryNiceChickenNugget · 24/05/2024 10:42

Paying autonomo in Spain puts you in the healthcare system but you are still advised to have private cover as its better.

Spanish autonomo is insane. Its 350e pm for 2000-2900 (I believe) euro income per month, the taxes would be roughly 550 and then you have gestor/accountant fees so you lose about a grand a month.

We have been looking at an Eastern European country instead but the visa criteria is still the same.

Edited

You would have had to pay that as an autonomo even before Brexit - citizens of member states still do.

Before Brexit you could perhaps have looked for employment rather than freelance work, but that would have depended on skillset, level of Spanish and availability of jobs at a practicable salary point.

Obviously since Brexit the working visa situation now adds a further complication.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 24/05/2024 12:25

Dibblydoodahdah · 24/05/2024 12:06

I don’t think it is their main concern but they know they can use it to manipulate the electorate by going on about tax breaks and making them think they can get one over on “rich” people.

Just like the eleventy billion threads on here are being used to manipulate people into caring about a tiny minority of 7% of children who go to private school

CurlewKate · 24/05/2024 12:28

They have explicitly said they won't. I think the SDP said they will.

Beautiful3 · 24/05/2024 12:28

No they wouldn't. It would take years to rebuild an eu relationship. It would have to be voted through too. Maybe in the the next 50 -70 years, but not now.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/05/2024 12:29

No, @VeryGoodVeryNiceChickenNugget, they won't reverse Brexit.

There are a number of reasons for this but the main one is that rejoining the EU would require a new EU treaty which would have to be ratified by all the other member states. So any one of 27 other countries could say, "No, we don't want the UK to rejoin" and that would be it.

In at least four of those countries a referendum is needed to ratify any new EU treaty, so it wouldn't even be up to the government of those countries. For example, the Macron government or its successor could say yes to us rejoining but if voters in France profonde say, "no, fuck off", France can't ratify the treaty.

So the difficulty with rejoining is, what order would you attempt to do it in?

Would you negotiate with the EU27 and hold referendums in several other countries to decide whether the UK should be allowed to rejoin and then have a referendum in the UK to see whether British people want to? And risk that after all that, and all the countless millions of euros spent establishing whether we should be allowed to rejoin, we say, "thanks but no thanks"?

Or would you hold a referendum in the UK and take the risk that a clear majority of British voters vote to rejoin, and then the EU27 say no?

Unfortunately, whilst a vote to remain in the EU needn't have settled the matter for all eternity (in the sense that we could have voted to remain and then voted to leave ten years later), actually leaving is permanent. Once you've left, even though there is a theoretical legal path to rejoining, in practice it's impossible.

That's why Labour won't attempt to take us back into the EU, because it's not within their power.

They could negotiate a closer trading relationship with the EU and restore free movement between the UK and the EU if they were politically motivated to do so. We could probably be more like Switzerland. But that's as close as we are ever going to get to rejoining.

hairbearbunches · 24/05/2024 12:50

DramaLlamaBangBang · 24/05/2024 11:07

I agree. Corbyn was a long time Brexiteer, but his apparently legendary ' principles' went out the window when Momentum came knocking. He couldn't give any good reasons for Brexit ( despite that being his stance for 40 years) yet was clearly not remain, so decided to be less than useless to the Remain campaign. Labour under Corbyn partly own the shambles we are in today due to their voting against any trade deals made by Teresa May, and voting with the ERG.

This is crap. Corbyn was heavily in favour of remain and campaigned for such. I seem to remember one of the Eagle sisters going on record saying no-one had done more on the campaign trail for Labour than Corbyn. He criss crossed the country advocating for remain. Hardly his fault if the MSM ignored that, which they did because the blue on blue internecine warfare over leave and remain was far more exciting to them. He said he was 7/10 in favour of staying in and trying to reform from within because we had been in too long at that point for it to be anything other than a nightmare to extricate ourselves from. His was the only grown up position on the EU. Other people in favour of remain were like the bloody moonies, the EU could do no wrong. That stance was as bad as the arch Brexiteers position.