DS probably dropping out of uni. DH horrified.

[iliketosing]

DS got into an excellent uni, top 3 in the world for his course, or something. Anyway, a degree from here would set him up for life career wise. Except that a degree from an excellent uni is no good to him if he is dead from throwing himself under a train - as I am trying to explain to my DH (sorry I've never posted on mumsnet and am not entirely sure of all the abbreviations.) It's a scandal no-one wants to talk about but one of the reasons he is unhappy is that he is on a corridor with 5 chinese girls who don't speak English and stick together like glue. 1/3 of his uni is Chinese, and most of them don't have the language skills to communicate in English. 1/3 are international - also v cliquey. And 1/3 are British kids who have been consummately unfriendly to say the least. He has always been very shy and possibly, because he is tall and beautiful, seems arrogant and aloof from afar. Inside he's a specky geek. He had a gap year and went off to an organised camp in terror because of his shyness; to his joy and amazement he made friends easily and quickly with about 10 others in the group, all from up North in the UK, and actually fell for a girl from Newcastle. So now he wants to leave the amazing rep Russel group uni (in the South...) and start again next year - at Leeds/Newcastle/up North. I think that if he has made every effort to acclimatise and is still miserable by Xmas then he should leave, incurring less debt than if he stayed the year and then left. And he really is trying - he's exercising regularly, seeing a counsellor, is moving to different accomodation, has joined all kinds of groups. But remains isolated and lonely. I don't know if he should try an antidepressant, I feel sad about thinking this and that perhaps I am medicalising understandable unhappiness. My DH thinks he should stay and be miserable as he is likely to cheer up eventually and will regret forever such an impulsive and crazy move. I wonder if anyone else has been a parent in this situation? I don't feel too upset about it as I started anti-depressants a month ago!! (because of how awful I felt for him.) I feel pretty tefloned now. I wish my DS was too.

I was in a similar position to your DS a few years ago, top 5 uni for my course but I got put in a shared room with antisocial girls who made my life hell, I had no escape and no opportunity for space in my own to relax. The living and social environment was not for me, but I tried my best to stick it out (for two years) because I didn't want to disappoint my parents but I ended up having a breakdown, dropped out, became suicidal because of the pressure from my parents, didn't leave my flat for months at a time because of anxiety. I am only here now because I had DP to support me. Then I had DD so couldn't return immediately, but I am going to return to my course next September once DD is two, but only because I can't face debts in five figures for no qualification to be honest. I know now I can just power through the work side without the pressures of living with other young people. I wish I had dropped out in the first term and had minimal debts, then I could justify doing something I actually want to do.

Let your DS take a while out to decide what he wants to do, no need to rush to another uni. Most will let you take up to 5 years off a course and return when you want, he may not like the other unis and by that point he won't be able to change his mind again. It is a lot of pressure at 18 to make life changing decisions let him take some time away to assess what he really wants without pressure. I have only recently repaired my relationship with my parents and I do still resent the pressure they put on me to go to university in the first place and their denial that I was too ill to continue. Your DH needs to make sure he doesn't make your DS feel he can't talk to you both or put more pressure on him, you will just end up pushing him away and making it worse.

Have you gone OP?

We don't know the OP's DS is in London, but if he is, I don't agree with people who say it's easier to make friends there!

In my view, it's much easier to make friends at a campus- based Uni or one in a smaller town.

MY DS struggles socially which is why we advised him to go to a campus Uni.

Seems to me that she's thrown a quasi-racist grenade and vamooshed.

If he’s suffering suicidal thoughts, why are you and your H discussing whether or not he should stay at the uni?

He wants to leave, let him fgs!

OP is new to Mumsnet. Maybe she's gone out to walk the dog or do the shopping?

And most people have been quite understanding about the comment about the Chinese.

Oh she’s new to MN? That explains a few things.

Calling the phenomenon of high international enrolments a "scandal" and claiming the Chinese students (at the elite uni) "don't speak English" is pretty bad grumpy, TBF. Inflammatory, almost.

It's not somebody calmly commenting on cliques.

"MY DS struggles socially which is why we advised him to go to a campus Uni."

I know it's early days, but does that advice seem to be paying off so far grumpy? Am also interested in such questions. I've been assuming a guaranteed place in hall is important in that respect (though recent threads as per previous post have caused me some concern - if you're the only non partyer with a group of 8 party people it may not help!)

Op, has your ds considered volunteering - environmental cleanup groups, for instance? fresh air, people, get to know people slowly.

Lookingahead, yes it has paid off. He has been very happy so far. He is in a shared flat with 8 people & fortunately they all get on well together. Other friends of his have not been as lucky though - and one has had to change accommodation, so it seems to be a bit of a lottery.

It's hard to imagine proportions of foreign students that the OP describes.

At DD's course, it's about 30% overseas (a good proportion native English speakers), 30% Scottish/EU, 40% rUK. Non-English speakers have to do an English competency test.

I suspect that her DS is not seeing things clearly.

With regards to the Chinese students, they are of course also in their first term, away from their homes and countries and are probably terrified and home sick so stick tightly together. It isn't personal and it's not his fault. He should see how new accommodation goes then if that still doesn't improve matters, move him.

Have any of you walked around a uni campus recently? Done a course? They are of course providing humungous amounts of money for the university's, and actually to the city's in which they reside arguably my kid wouldn't be there if their money wasn't. The admissions tutors reassure themselves that because the students have done a month of English before the term starts they can do the course. They then link their course work up to an English speaking student, who gets the grade for all 5 of them, for which only that student has done the work. They don't engage properly on the course for example in tutorials, because their language skills are simply not good enough to. I know this because over the years I have met many of them in my job, and met many students witnessing this happening. They cannot follow simple commands - please lie on this couch; simple friendly phrases eg. "How are you getting on? What course are you studying?" are met with blank uncomprehending stares. I use google translate and an interpreter service. I am not here to argue about this, but actually probably the reason no-one dares address it is because of the predictable shouts of "racist".

Well I chose my uni based on a holiday romance (it does sound as if OPs son is basically lovesick) and whilst it worked out (the uni, the holiday romance withered in the face of reality) I certainly do not think such immature emotions, however strongly felt, should influence your life choices. Newcastle is three hours on the train, get a Railpass.

I am guessing this is Imperial, get over the racism, most UK unis have a lot of overseas students, but the problem there is that it is boy heavy. Both my DDs shared with Chinese students and made an effort and made friendships for life. If they really don’t speak English, they really would not be at a top 3 uni (as the recent court judgement against the Home Office reinforced ) However students at Imperial do need to get out of campus, and get involved with ULU and other activities that enable them to meet students from other London unis, DD knew a lot of Imperial students.

You do not need to go north to meet northerners.DDs London student flat-share included friends from Lancashire and Yorkshire whilst other DDs northern student flat-share was all but one with friends from London and the south (plus China )

Imperial is an amazing uni in which to study many courses and the networks you set up there will last you for life. Socially it is male and geeky so if that does not suit him then he needs to find a social life that does. There are so many sports and cultural activities that would help him meet other London students. Imperial students often mix with students from the music schools nearby for instance.

If it is the wrong course, fair enough, but to throw it because of puppylove and the resulting unwillingness to make an effort.....

OP there is quite a lot off support for you on this thread. And no doubt the issue with the large numbers of Chinese students is a real one, and while it is one of the factors affecting your DS it is not the main point of the thread - which is how to help him deal with the situation he is in at the moment.

I don't think I have suggested there is anything wrong with him going up North. It is whether he is subconsciously doing it because of the GF; whether his unhappiness will follow him wherever he goes; whether they will be friendlier or is it him? It is not about him going up North, more about him leaving his course at such an early stage. Newcastle is fab, so is Leeds, I'd be very happy for him to go to either, his cousins are all there too. Thanks for all your responses, I appreciate them.

OP Yes I have and one that had 30% overseas students. You evidently have not and you are frankly talking out of your arse. Overseas students have to pass a language test, I have never known any who could not speak a decent level of English, certainly more than adequate to take part in seminars and make a very useful contribution (in some cases there is a cultural reluctance to speak up because they are used to talk and chalk but no decent academic let’s that happen). No overseas student is at Imperial without being extremely clever and having a great deal to contribute. Why doesn’t your son take the girls in his flat to Canteen, the Chinese cafe by South Ken tube get them to order for him and find out a bit about them?

Your poor son to be guided by someone so xenophobic.

Totally understand OP. Ds is at a uni in a flat made up of Asian students, they don't come out of their rooms. He's so fed up not to have a good uni experience in that way. He's been lonely with no one to chat to in the kitchen etc. It's tough. He's making friends via sports clubs.

I haven't rtft but both my brothers dropped out of university and both earn more than I do with a degree. And both are on very decent wages. Not going to university, or even just not going to the best ones, doesn't mean you won't get a decent career. Happiness is far more important than the name of the university.

"whether they will be friendlier or is it him?"

Well, it may be a bit of both. You mentioned he might seem aloof and arrogant because he is shy - and I think that can sometimes be a problem for shy people. Do you think he's aware of the need to appear more approachable and friendly? - I know it can be very difficult to broach the subject because you don't want to damage a dc's self-confidence even more. But then you say he is doing everything he can to socialise, so perhaps he is aware already?

I bet on the Chinese equivalent of Mumsnet there are many mums moaning that their children are not coming out of their rooms at UK unis because nobody makes the effort to speak to them. Hint, if you want to get to know a Chinese student go eat with them...

I went to a top uni for my subject. Got put in halls as a fresher surrounded by final year students. Was so miserable. I couldnt have said anything to my parents. I stuck it out and got my degree but god i wish id have had the balls to independently change unis. My parents had wrapped me in cotton wool so i had no clue about anything. Thankfully i did my masters in a place i loved.

But, but, but..... he must have been there like 3 weeks?

Did the course start at a different time or has he really decided it's hopeless and intolerable after three weeks?

If I'm wrong I apologise profusely but I'm just concerned this is a massive over reaction and that moving your son to better accommodation may be more productive.

Our son came home dad at Christmas and that was concerning but we talked to him and discussed things to try with the assurance that if he continued to struggle he could come home. We Skyped every night, talked to him and finding activities etc. He joined the newspaper and the rugby squad and found (by asking in his lecture group) two people who wanted to run and things changed almost immediately .
By Easter he never replied to my texts

There is a midway point between pulling him and sending him to his girlfriend and ignoring him.
Chasing friends, especially a girlfriend , isn't the best idea

Have any of you walked around a uni campus recently? Done a course? They are of course providing humungous amounts of money for the university's

I think it's safe to say that many MNers work in universities.

I am not here to argue about this, but actually probably the reason no-one dares address it is because of the predictable shouts of "racist".

Nobody has taken much issue with the fact that we are now in the era of high international student enrolments, have they?

It's your use of "scandal" and overall tone that's problematic.

I don't think you are being racist OP. I am sure that many of the Asian students have chosen precisely that university/course because they know there will be lots of other Asian people there with whom they can socialise. What is then wrong with the OP's son trying to find a university where he finds it easier to socialise?

OP, I think let him finish this term, and then support him if he wants to move up North. As other posters have said, lots of students find they've not picked quite the right course/university in the first year and then it's a case of finding the courage to change. He clearly desperately needs your support. Just knowing that you are 100% behind him, no matter what, is the key.

I used to work with someone whose son failed the first year at university and was too afraid to tell his father, and so 'went back' for the start of the second year but was sleeping on the streets. I know it's not the same, but children will do anything to avoid their parents' disappointment so you must try and get your dh to keep it to himself. What was it that Aldous Huxley said about kindness - that after everything he'd studied, in the end, his conclusion was that we should all try to be a little kinder to each other. Tell your dh to be kind.

Everyone I know who went to a northern university has been very happy. Of the two I know who went to southern ones, the one who went to Goldsmiths dropped out after the first term and went to Edinburgh instead the next year, and the one who went to Exeter dropped out completely and never went back!