DS probably dropping out of uni. DH horrified.

[iliketosing]

DS got into an excellent uni, top 3 in the world for his course, or something. Anyway, a degree from here would set him up for life career wise. Except that a degree from an excellent uni is no good to him if he is dead from throwing himself under a train - as I am trying to explain to my DH (sorry I've never posted on mumsnet and am not entirely sure of all the abbreviations.) It's a scandal no-one wants to talk about but one of the reasons he is unhappy is that he is on a corridor with 5 chinese girls who don't speak English and stick together like glue. 1/3 of his uni is Chinese, and most of them don't have the language skills to communicate in English. 1/3 are international - also v cliquey. And 1/3 are British kids who have been consummately unfriendly to say the least. He has always been very shy and possibly, because he is tall and beautiful, seems arrogant and aloof from afar. Inside he's a specky geek. He had a gap year and went off to an organised camp in terror because of his shyness; to his joy and amazement he made friends easily and quickly with about 10 others in the group, all from up North in the UK, and actually fell for a girl from Newcastle. So now he wants to leave the amazing rep Russel group uni (in the South...) and start again next year - at Leeds/Newcastle/up North. I think that if he has made every effort to acclimatise and is still miserable by Xmas then he should leave, incurring less debt than if he stayed the year and then left. And he really is trying - he's exercising regularly, seeing a counsellor, is moving to different accomodation, has joined all kinds of groups. But remains isolated and lonely. I don't know if he should try an antidepressant, I feel sad about thinking this and that perhaps I am medicalising understandable unhappiness. My DH thinks he should stay and be miserable as he is likely to cheer up eventually and will regret forever such an impulsive and crazy move. I wonder if anyone else has been a parent in this situation? I don't feel too upset about it as I started anti-depressants a month ago!! (because of how awful I felt for him.) I feel pretty tefloned now. I wish my DS was too.

If he is depressed, listen to him. Go and look at other unis so he at least feels that he has an escape route.

I would encourage him to stick with it until Christmas or Easter but definitely also encourage him to research what other course he wants.

My dd went to a private school that was a third Chinese and they absolutely did not socialise outside their group. None of the did sport or wanted to go to the English girls homes so it was impossible to break through to them.

DS is a Maths nerd and this is why we advised him against going to a Uni in London - cost & harder to make friends.

My DS went to a top red brick uni a few years ago. He was so excited, but quickly his dream unravelled. He too felt like a fish out of water as nearly all the other students were either from the Independent Sector or abroad. As someone who had always found academic work fairly easy I encouraged him to speak to his tutor about his concerns. Unfortunately, we found out later that his tutor was a newbie to the role and was as much use as a chocolate teapot. After failing his first year through mental health issues, I encouraged him to walk away as you rightly say, there is more to life than a certificate.
Twelve months later he re-applied to a different top university to do a completely different degree. Best decision he could have made as he successfully completed the course and now works in London.

The only down side is DS has an extra year of student debt, but quite frankly, this is a small price to pay for his happiness.
I hope your son manages to find a future path which brings him happiness.

I’d be a bit concerned about the reasoning- meet 10 people from the north plus girl ( is she actually his girlfriend? I wasn’t clear). Decide all northerners are your people. Drop out. Move to Newcastle. That’s not to say that his current situation isnt challenging. I’m just not sure it’s the right solution. It sounds as though the gap year thing was perfect for a shy person because the group nature facilitated making friends and he had a blast and is now trying to recreate that.

Oh, and I also find the comment about the Chinese students quite odd. Of course they can communicate in English if they’re doing an English medium degree at one of the country’s top universities.

I am sure they can but often (as at my dds school) they prefer not to. This is not a racist observation and it's ridiculous to start insinuating that it is.

Of course they can communicate in English if they’re doing an English medium degree at one of the country’s top universities.

But OP is saying that they choose not to when they don't have to.

As pp have pointed out Cantsee this is about how these students communicate when in halls.The OP's ds can't speak their language and is therefore feeling isolated.

The gap year was an artificial environment and if he thinks he can recreate that by moving up north he's in for a shock. His biggest issue appears to be social anxiety and difficulty mixing. Until he can address that, he's going to struggle in life. So my advice would be to focus on getting him support to help him resolve the root cause which is not the foreign students or the uni but his confidence and social skills.

He needs to choose the Uni he wants to go to and contact them. See what they would allow/recommend from the following:

Transferring now or after Christmas into the equivalent course, perhaps making up some extra work - compare modules etc.

Finishing this year and going into second year there.

Stopping now, working and starting next year as a first year.

Having a plan will help, although it is a little early to have given it a chance and he is confusing missing his holiday friends with the lack of new ones. It sounds like the camp was unusually easy to make friends for a shy person and perhaps the uni is more typical, all it takes is one really sociable person in the camp and they essentially did it for him. How has he been the rest of the time when joining clubs or new groups? I'm only asking because if he is just scared of the new and usually tries to back out, I'd encourage him to keep at it - otherwise make his get out plan.

My DS is similar to yours. He’s up north at Sheffield. He absolutely loves it, so much so, he is now doing his PHD there too. Fabulous place to study, great city and he’s made fantastic friends.

You only get one life, why be miserable when there are so many other great places to get your degree!

Hi @iliketosing - didn’t want to read and run, you must be really worried. I think it’s worth your DS moving accommodation if he can before trying another uni-I’ve been there, and it’s awful having to share a living space with people with whom you’ve absolutely nothing in common / who just don’t speak to you, you just feel so alone. Also I would strongly suggest that he tries out all the clubs/societies that he can, I can relate to being shy but there have to be few friendly faces around (it’s never too late, I met some of my best friends in third year when I joined a sports society that I had never tried before).

See how it goes til Christmas and then move on (or potentially re-start the year?) if it doesn’t improve? Newcastle and Leeds are fab unis, by the way, and a year out is no bad thing, but I wouldnt necessarily recommend that he moves to follow his gf (I went to uni with my long-term school bf and we split by the following Christmas-if it was meant to be we’d have been fine at different unis I think). Wishing him - and you - all the best.

No- the OP said they lack the language skills to communicate in English.

Your poor DS. Your husband isn't considering his mental health at all. University is about so much more than just getting a degree. I was in a similar situation (in a flat with 5 v religious girls who I had nothing in common with). It was horrible, I felt completely isolated and ended up leaving and not going back.

I was isolated and lonely at University and quickly realised I had made the wrong choice - for me.

Left at Christmas and went to a different Uni the year after. Was very happy. Much more sociable Halls set up, which is really important. The first term at this other uni is all but forgotten about. Just one of those things. I paid off the loan I got for that term years ago.

I can guess exactly where he is. With the grades to get in there he will easily get into an almost equally amazing and prestigious course elsewhere. If he wants to leave and reapply let him, it's his life! Just make sure he does something with the enforced gap year - work or travel.

Ps three other people I encountered (out of hundreds of undergrads) did the same as me. It's not uncommon!

Sounds like Imperial to me. FWIW I worked there for a decade and found it highly unfriendly, but as academic staff, so not the same

On the other hand, we are still early in the first semester. It would probably be more sensible to complete the first year and then if still unhappy transfer to a similar course at another uni on the second year OR start again for the full three years on a different course, IF he is still unhappy next summer.

Could he move out of halls completely?
I hated halls and moved into private accommodation of campus with a couple of new graduates from a completely different subject to mine. Made my uni days much more bearable.

Would there be any chance of him moving to different accommodation with more of a mix of nationalities? I think it is perfectly natural that the Chinese girls want to speak to each other in their own language when they're together but it is isolating for him. He could make the effort to get to know them, as my DD did at her school and ended up making some lovely friends.

My Dd is now in her first term at uni. She doesn't particularly like anyone in accommodation and doesn't mix with them at all. Instead, she's joined quite a few clubs and societies and has made her friends there and is having a great social life. Her best friend at uni is Chinese.

I agree with PPs, you need to find out more. I don't think wanting to be near his GF or other friends is a good reason. He can visit them from time to time. If he's not enjoying the course, that would be different.

I don't think you're being dramatic at all. I would also be very concerned.

So if all those Chinese students don't communicate in English, then how on Earth do they study in an English university?

I'm another who thinks he should stick it out a little longer - at least long enough to see how much (if at all) the change of accommodation helps.

I'd also be wary of dropping out for the sake of an unspecified course at an unspecified northern university: has he researched alternative courses, to be sure that he'd actually enjoy them more? What does his tutor say? And is he sure (as far as one can be at that age) that the girl in Newcastle would welcome him being nearer? Is he sure she wants such a "present" relationship, rather than a long distance one?

And I agree with the PP who cautions against catastrophising. If he is having suicidal thoughts, he needs an urgent referral to mental health services. If there are students who can't converse in English, that would be odd, but are you overdramatizing here? I have a hunch where your son might be and, if I'm right, all undergraduates will have passed a whole battery of tests, including English, so if they converse in their native language that's a choice, not an indication of lack of English language skills.

I can understand that it’s frustrating to be on a corridor with students who communicate with one another in their common mother tongue. However, I imagine that assuming they’re mainland born and raised ( as opposed to ABCs or BBCs or Uk boarding school educated ) they’re experiencing a fair bit of culture shock and likely to cling to one another initially. There’s also the face issue whereby Chinese people can be shy to speak to native English speakers due to their concerns over their imperfect English. Has your ds tried to initiate conversations with them in English?