DS probably dropping out of uni. DH horrified.

[iliketosing]

DS got into an excellent uni, top 3 in the world for his course, or something. Anyway, a degree from here would set him up for life career wise. Except that a degree from an excellent uni is no good to him if he is dead from throwing himself under a train - as I am trying to explain to my DH (sorry I've never posted on mumsnet and am not entirely sure of all the abbreviations.) It's a scandal no-one wants to talk about but one of the reasons he is unhappy is that he is on a corridor with 5 chinese girls who don't speak English and stick together like glue. 1/3 of his uni is Chinese, and most of them don't have the language skills to communicate in English. 1/3 are international - also v cliquey. And 1/3 are British kids who have been consummately unfriendly to say the least. He has always been very shy and possibly, because he is tall and beautiful, seems arrogant and aloof from afar. Inside he's a specky geek. He had a gap year and went off to an organised camp in terror because of his shyness; to his joy and amazement he made friends easily and quickly with about 10 others in the group, all from up North in the UK, and actually fell for a girl from Newcastle. So now he wants to leave the amazing rep Russel group uni (in the South...) and start again next year - at Leeds/Newcastle/up North. I think that if he has made every effort to acclimatise and is still miserable by Xmas then he should leave, incurring less debt than if he stayed the year and then left. And he really is trying - he's exercising regularly, seeing a counsellor, is moving to different accomodation, has joined all kinds of groups. But remains isolated and lonely. I don't know if he should try an antidepressant, I feel sad about thinking this and that perhaps I am medicalising understandable unhappiness. My DH thinks he should stay and be miserable as he is likely to cheer up eventually and will regret forever such an impulsive and crazy move. I wonder if anyone else has been a parent in this situation? I don't feel too upset about it as I started anti-depressants a month ago!! (because of how awful I felt for him.) I feel pretty tefloned now. I wish my DS was too.

I think lots of young people struggle to adapt to university life initially, but most of them do settle in eventually. However, there is a small number who don't settle, for whatever reason. If he is really unhappy and things don't improve, then I don't think he should stick it out no matter what. A good degree is worth having, but not at the expense of his mental or physical wellbeing. Ultimately, it's his decision anyway, and not your DH's - he is an adult, after all.

Having said all that, I don't believe that two thirds of the students at his university are Chinese or other international, especially at undergraduate level. Even at the most diverse institutions, the proportions are nowhere near that high.

He hasn’t been there very long. If he’s in London he has ample opportunity for meeting 1000s of people.

I’d get him to stick out the year personally.

Hi OP

It’s relatively easy to switch universities at the end of the first year. I would encourage him to stick it out for the rest of this (academic) year, with the promise that if he is still miserable he can definitely swap.

That way, he’s given it a reasonable chance. And his current year will count towards his degree, so he won’t have wasted the effort and money he has put into this year.

More sensible IMO than dropping out at Xmas and having to start all over again.

My niece dropped out of uni at Christmas. She was settled. However, they had exams straight after Christmas, and she suddenly thought she didn't want that pressure. She is now at a different 'university' (college offering uni courses) in a completely different field and is doing well. She is probably more employable then she would have been after her previous scientific course.

I would advise for your DC to see what changing accomadation is like. If not change, better to be hap.

^ Exactly.

I pulled out of my first degree... best decision ever. I HATED it I was so ill and unhappy. My parents were worried... but I went back to do and different degree at a different uni and it was a much better fit and I was more informed about what I was looking for.

Just as an aside if he does make the decision he wants to leave - things might have changed - but check the whole fee thing. Because I completed the first term - I had to pay the first years fees in full, whereas if I had pulled out before the Christmas break I wouldn’t have been.

Deckoff I really hope he doesn't come across anyone as unsympathetic as you. I probably am more concerned because I worked in student mental health for a long time, and if someone is expressing suicidal ideation, I think we have to take this seriously.

He's only been there a few weeks - these things take time to settle. To drop out so soon over an easily remedied social situation would be premature and a bit much, unless he is truly hating the course too.

At his age his girlfriend shouldn't be a factor, and could be hindering his personal and social life.

It took me until just before the Christmas break to settle into uni life when I went. I remember writing a totally depressing blog in the October about how I could go days without actually properly speaking anyone. I would have been making a massive mistake if I had dropped out and went home because of that - what helped me was speaking to Student Services, and being offered support and ideas for making friends.

^The exactly was with ref to Tilapias post about how easy it is to change after a year etc.

It might be easy to switch Unis at the end of the academic year but wouldn't it be even easier to just pull out and reapply through UCAS so he can feel the decision is settled and do something else til then? It's only ten months. He could get some valuable work experience in the meantime.

Ps OP I went from huge city to northern Uni town when I switched. It had a much friendlier feel. And that is important. Especially for kids with a tendency to depression, as I did.

I didn’t go to Uni in London but have many friends who did. It’s not the typical British University experience, and I think it does take longer to settle and my friends tended to have a broader circle of friends and a lot more non-student friends than me or other friends at campus or smaller city universities. If he is very shy, then it is tough but it’s really early days and he certainly won’t be the only one struggling. I’d definitely give the new accommodation a chance.

So if all those Chinese students don't communicate in English, then how on Earth do they study in an English university?

The fact that universities will admit students with a baseline English level but who will struggle to communicate, particularly face to face, is well known in the sector- these students bring in over £12,000 a year and so they are very unlikely to be either excluded or to be asked to leave if they struggle with spoken English. Their written English may be ok or may be sub-standard/on the poorer side and they get correspondingly lower grades as a result, but very unlikely to be failed. The students are often bright, in my experience, but just don't quite get the amount of language input when in the UK to really make the transition to being bilingual/writing well in the second language.

In an ideal world, there would be a lot more integration between Chinese (or any international) students and UK students- if a lot of students come together and live together, this is reassuring for them in terms of culture and language, but it does reinforce existing groups. I also think UK students can be cliquey as well and exclude Chinese or other international students, especially if there are only 1 or 2 on a course. I deliberately keep an eye on that in my classes and encourage participation of everyone, even those who might prefer not to attract attention to themselves; I also offer one to one study skills or point them to the right courses at the uni which support those studying in their second/third language (as this is a recognized problem).

It's very naive to think just because you can write ok in academic English you have the language skills and confidence to fully participate in every social situation, especially if your own language is being reinforced by use all the rest of the time.

OP, it seems unlikely from what you've said that it is the Uni causing your son's current issues. He has only been there a few weeks. It seems more likely that he's missing his friends from the gap year meetup. You haven't mentioned him being suicidal in your post.

Is he still in contact with his friends from the gap year? What about this girl, are they in a relationship because you just say he's fallen for her?

I can absolutely appreciate how much we worry about our children, but to say that you ended up on anti-depressants because of your son seems worrying to me. It is very catastrophic thinking which your son may do as well!

Wait until he changes accommodation and see if he is in contact with the gap year friends. If he leaves he may not get funding for that year again (going on what MN has said in the past) so see how a change of accommodation goes before making any further decisions. He is doing the right thing by getting out and about and speaking to a counsellor.

Obviously there are a lot of posters that have provided success stories here about moving Uni/changing course which is lovely and one of the strengths of MN.

Sounds like Imperial.

Madreputa - ability to speak academic, technical English and ability to socialize in English are not necessarily the same. Please listen to people who have been there and are telling you that these groups do not want to speak English outside of their course. It's gotten to the point where it has to be stated that the working language in unis is English. Not only is it shockingly rude to talk in a language that isn't understood by everyone, it's also a massive health and safety risk in lab situations.

I think he needs to look into moving into different accommodation.Just moving to a different corridor might be enough. There are bound to be others not gelling with their corridor-mates.

It's a scandal no-one wants to talk about but one of the reasons he is unhappy is that he is on a corridor with 5 chinese girls who don't speak English and stick together like glue. 1/3 of his uni is Chinese, and most of them don't have the language skills to communicate in English. 1/3 are international - also v cliquey. And 1/3 are British kids who have been

OP you'll get a much better response if you omit the value judgements about whether high intakes of international students are a good idea or not. And maybe less of the "tall, beautiful, aloof" stuff too?

You're (inadvertently) putting backs up with your attitudes.

Also meant to say it is very very early days.A huge number of students feel isolated and homesick to begin with.he is doing all the right things joining clubs and societies.I think he just needs to give it a bit more time to find his tribe.

Your DS needs to drop out now. I don't think antidepressants are necessarily the answer. If he dropped out, he could have a break from the stress he's been feeling- spend time with family, his girlfriend- and hopefully feel better. He could apply for another uni, like you said up north, for next year. You need to make sure that if he does apply for another university, that you pay special attention to the aspects of his current uni that has caused this isolation.

The thing is though, he met this girl on his gap year. Before he even started, he’s hardly been there and surprise surprise, he hates it, I wonder if he’s given it a chance? It can’t be one huge lucky co incidence that the uni he wants to go to is close to where she lives and the one he is at , which is far away from her, he hates.

I think I’d be suspecting that he simply wants to be with this girl so has determinedly not settled in and is throwing every excuse under the sun so he can jack it in and go be with his girlfriend.

The issue there is if the relationship ends, and he suddenly can’t tolerate being there anymore, but in addition he again doesn’t integrate because he spends his free time with her and is at a loss when the relationship ends.

However it’s his life, he’s all grown up, and he has to make his own decisions and live by the repercussions. However I can see why your husband would be concerned about his decision making process and possibly what’s driving him here. I suspect he’s very very immature. Is this his first girlfriend?

You need to make sure that if he does apply for another university, that you pay special attention to the aspects of his current uni that has caused this isolation

Call me cynical but I’d guess determinedly not wishing to integrate and possibly even spending time with the girlfriend would be a large part of it.

So if all those Chinese students don't communicate in English, then how on Earth do they study in an English university?

They speak and understand English perfectly, but prefer to socialise in Chinese. Much like Anglo-phone expats often do abroad. If there was a uni in Shanghai with 30% US and UK students still in their teens, it's safe to say that most (not all!) of them would hang out together, and not with Chinese students, even if their Chinese was fine for studying/learning.

Bluntness 100%

I think ds does want to integrate does he not, but is having difficulty? The change of accommodation may help though.

I absolutely agree don't choose a university on the basis of the girlfriend being there, as it may indeed not last. But also, don't stay somewhere that you truly are miserable. However, having been reading some threads (with alarm, thinking ahead!) about the difficulties some people are having with their university accommodation sharers, it is true that different problems can arise wherever you go.

OP I think the real issue here is that ds finds it hard to make friends but would like to, and would like a good social circle? That is very common, and one of the 'hardest' social issues to address. If you're in London that is an awful lot of people, so there should be some who he will get on with, but finding them can be difficult. He is doing all the right things though by joining clubs/societies - but some of it is intangible, sending out the right signals etc (I suspect you know this!) Is he enjoying the course academically?