DS probably dropping out of uni. DH horrified.

[iliketosing]

DS got into an excellent uni, top 3 in the world for his course, or something. Anyway, a degree from here would set him up for life career wise. Except that a degree from an excellent uni is no good to him if he is dead from throwing himself under a train - as I am trying to explain to my DH (sorry I've never posted on mumsnet and am not entirely sure of all the abbreviations.) It's a scandal no-one wants to talk about but one of the reasons he is unhappy is that he is on a corridor with 5 chinese girls who don't speak English and stick together like glue. 1/3 of his uni is Chinese, and most of them don't have the language skills to communicate in English. 1/3 are international - also v cliquey. And 1/3 are British kids who have been consummately unfriendly to say the least. He has always been very shy and possibly, because he is tall and beautiful, seems arrogant and aloof from afar. Inside he's a specky geek. He had a gap year and went off to an organised camp in terror because of his shyness; to his joy and amazement he made friends easily and quickly with about 10 others in the group, all from up North in the UK, and actually fell for a girl from Newcastle. So now he wants to leave the amazing rep Russel group uni (in the South...) and start again next year - at Leeds/Newcastle/up North. I think that if he has made every effort to acclimatise and is still miserable by Xmas then he should leave, incurring less debt than if he stayed the year and then left. And he really is trying - he's exercising regularly, seeing a counsellor, is moving to different accomodation, has joined all kinds of groups. But remains isolated and lonely. I don't know if he should try an antidepressant, I feel sad about thinking this and that perhaps I am medicalising understandable unhappiness. My DH thinks he should stay and be miserable as he is likely to cheer up eventually and will regret forever such an impulsive and crazy move. I wonder if anyone else has been a parent in this situation? I don't feel too upset about it as I started anti-depressants a month ago!! (because of how awful I felt for him.) I feel pretty tefloned now. I wish my DS was too.

“many MNers work in universities”
how many? I bet it’s a tiny percentage.

I actually can’t believe the number of posters blaming the op’s son. Did you all miss the bit where she said he is having suicidal thoughts?

I had a good friend at uni who had transferred there a few weeks into the first semester. He'd started at a higher ranked uni and hated it. He came to ours, was happy, made friends, got a first, did a PhD, is now a publishing lecturer. It was far braver of him to make the move than to try to stick it out in a place he hated, and it paid off.

There are a lot who have dc currently or recently at uni.

If somebody comes out with a blatant untruth to back up an assertion that overseas students do not speak sufficient English then it is I am afraid racism. I don’t know what she is talking about claiming admissions officers are satisfied with students doing a one month course / hooking up with an English student to do their work. Admission tutors are only satisfied if students have passed a language test. The Home Office recently got itself in a lot of legal hot water when it deported hundreds of overseas students on the pretext that the language test was not carried out rigorously. The courts determined otherwise. As to plaguerism then that is an issue whether the students are from overseas or not but universities go to great lengths with software etc to identify it and the penalties are extremely severe and rigidly immplememted. No student is left under any illusion that to do it is to risk exclusion.

Another thing I thought, OP, is that he's done amazingly well to have tried all the things he's trying - he's changed accommodation, he's exercising, he's joined groups, he's seeing a counsellor, so if none of that is the answer, and if the counsellor or his doctor think it might be an idea, then try the anti-depressants. I say this in the kindest way possibly, but if you are taking them to cope with the stress of all this, then maybe your son has inherited your genes, and might benefit from the help also. Worth thinking about, surely?

I suffer from awful anxiety and have recently started to wonder how much nicer my life might have been if I'd realised what it was and got some help. A bit late now for me though.

Universities are large employers in their local area - it's not just academics There are huge amounts of staff that are not involved in teaching.

I would wager that a lot of these Chinese students were at British boarding schools for up to 9 years.

OP, you cannot criticise unis or education on mumsnet. There seem to be a disproportionate amount of 'admissions tutors'

It's not that you can't criticise. It's just that you can't make stuff up.

OP claimed that two thirds of the students at her DC's Russell Group university are from overseas. I do not believe this to be true. Even at the most diverse institutions, the numbers are much smaller.

There are a lot of admissions tutors - from top universities.

Life’s too short to be miserable - your son should definitely move. However, I think you should review your first post and think about how you’ve categorised and stereotyped the groups that you’ve talked about.

I really think you need to calm down and take things one step at a time. talk to your son about what is really going on here.

he sounds quite geeky, and finds social situations difficult. he is pinning too much on the fact that he’s recently had a girlfriend. is this girl really that into him? She may well be at university having a whale of a time and may not have given him much thought!!

moving universities to be with her could be an absolute disaster. I really think you need to look at the accommodation, talk to tutor, get him out and about making some new friends, at uni societies etc.

It is very difficult when you first go to university, but suggesting antidepressants for yourself and him?

Maybe look at all the issues together, one step at a time and try and address them.

he may not need to move or he could move. but there’s no point me being melodramatic about it all.

My cousin dropped out of Imperial for similar reasons a year ago. Has just started at Nottingham and is reborn. Totally the right decision.

TBF Broken this is Imperial's 15/16 new admission stats. 33% of students of UK nationality

www.imperial.ac.uk/admin-services/strategic-planning/statistics/trend-analysis/student-nationality/

So BITS of what she says are plausible. 2/3 non UK is certainly happening at Imperial.

But she's over egging the pudding and being borderline offensive.

some people on here think they're on the It's A Small World ride. The university experience is sold as a social as well as an academic one and it is terribly disappointing when there isn't anyone with whom to have a drink, let alone a fun crowd all up for a riotous time.

if there are a lot of students of one particular nationality then obviously they will stick together and speak their own language. It's not the op's son's fault if this makes him miserable.

If this university is in London and begins with an I, then I think they should look at how they accommodate students. This is by no means the first time I have heard about students feeling unhappy and isolated there.

Perhaps the uni that I worked at is different, although Russel group, but I can tell you this - the chinese students could not speak English to save their lives. They go home with an English degree which is very prestigious, the English uni gets pots of money. It is a scandal and will eventually be exposed by a budding journalist one day.
It wouldn't matter to me really if they were friendlier - and yes he is on a corridor with 5 chinese girls who have literally not even said hello to him, although he has tried speaking to them of course! It just seems moronic to me to put this mix on a corridor.
It isn't just that of course. He went with such high hopes and that's very upsetting but we have had to let that go as it gets no-one anywhere. He went for catered as that seemed the least likely to lead to him getting isolated and stuck in his room- hahaha. He went for the "party hall". He says they are having parties - he's just not going to them. He eats in splendid isolation, as if he tries to join a group they react in a rather uninviting way. They really are a bunch of cunts, 'scuse my language. I know it all sounds so petty doesn't it? But it really is deeply horrible when it is happening to your child, and you have no control at all over any of it, can only watch from the side lines. Sorry for being dramatic peeps - but it feels like quite a drama at the moment.
Many unis are not good at looking after their first years.
I agree with one post who suggests my DS has social anxiety and needs to get help. He has sought help and they are excellent. They have even agreed to move him which is amazing I feel. He has joined loads of groups and has had fun with them. I think it's mainly his halls that are getting him down.
My DH would never let DS know how he feels but just doesn't want him to do something impulsive that he will regret for the rest of his life.
In my experience the students who get most anxious and depressed are the ones who convince themselves (possibly through parental pressure) that leaving their first choice uni will be catastrophic and that makes them ill. So I am being very chilled about the idea that if it stays awful by Xmas, he can get the hell out of there.

a school friend of mine has one british born Asian parent. Her university picked up on that, and she was allocated halls with the overseas students. After a year of being in halls with all the overseas non-fluent english speakers from S E Asia, she canned it and switched to a different university which didn't racially profile her based on her grandparents' nationality, & where she was much happier.

I live in China. I totally accept that Chinese born and raised students may prefer to speak Mandarin socially. What I don’t accept is that Chinese born and raised students of the Caibre that imperial requires don’t speak English to the extent that they depend on English students to do their work for them. It may be true of certain universities that are struggling for numbers.

My DD is in the first term of her degree at a London University (it’s a medical degree). She’s a minority being white British, knew this was going to be the case when we went to the open day, and the majority on her course are Asian and Muslim. She is absolutely loving it because nobody drinks, the students are fiercely competitive and it’s all about the studying. Horses for courses.

As to plaguerism then that is an issue whether the students are from overseas or not

Saif Gaddafi got away with it for quite a long time at LSE but maybe that's because his father was donating large sums of money to the university.

Ah, so it is Imperial. Not one of ds's friends applied there because the London university experience is so poor now (e.g. accommodation being in an outer zone) plus the lack of home students or even European ones. Ds's friend went to an open day there and he said every single name on the hall of residence doors was Asian. Everyone's happy to mix it up, but not to be the lone soul speaking English.

This sounds very much like Imperial and you're not wrong re jobs and it's makeup of students.
However, it is absolutely right that you are thinking of your DS and his wellbeing. Good luck coming to a resolution with your DH.

Ah! Cross post! Sorry!

He needs to make his own decisions - your OH needs to stand back and let him live his own life.

If he is unhappy where he is then he is sensible to make a move. The added bonus of the support of his GF will probably get him through and there is a great social life in the northern cities. He is in the wrong place at the wrong time and he can see that.

OP, they all sound awful, all of them, British, foreign, the lot. As you say, give him till Christmas and then let him do what ourkidmollys cousin did, and move him north.