Endgame - we need a discussion and spoiler thread **Contains spoilers - thread title edited by MNHQ**

[SouthWestmom]

Booked to see it tomorrow and v excited!

I think we need a thread to discuss it in.

So I'm starting one now.

I reckon Iron Man retires, Cap dies 😢, Hulk and Thor survive and that they return to the point where Starlord almost has it and get him to take the stone.

Gamorra must come back and I think Loki might.

I think it was more the women were with carol supoorting her the sisterhood if you like I like Marvel for having female characters that actually do something unlike DC who have their women is sexy decorations

I grew up in a really sexist household and I was teased and ridiculed for watching X men cartoons or Doctor who cos it was for boys clearly I wasn't allowed starwars toys etc etc so I love any kind of female hero actually doing something that girls can look at and go yaay so i loved the bit of standout there they go bits

I liked that bit I though it was kinda “right you’ve made a bit of a mess of this, stand aside and lets get it sorted!”

I enjoyed it. I understood it. I followed all the story arcs.

I'm not wild about it though. If that makes sense?

It was a great movie and well done but I think I'd hyped it up so much in my mind that I was let down on the day.

I can live with the time travel schtick, but did Black Widow really die with hardly another mention, never mind a memorial??

Fgs if they were tight for time they could have omitted the interminable scene where TS met his dad. And I’m still uncomfortable with the conclusion that she was more dispensable then Hawkeye because she didn’t have any kids.

Also agree that CM should have had more of an introduction in the earlier part of the film, even if she wasn’t to be part of the ‘time heist’ and could only appear part way through the final battle.

But I really liked the light relief that Antman brought to what was a really miserable first half.

My favourite bit about the Women of Marvel (TM) scene was that it came hot on the heels of the beginning of that fight and there being just the Old Boys Club of Cap, Iron Man and Thor, and it really did show that not only has this universe exploded after those initial individual films, but that it's not just for boys anymore.

We got the bromance of the Cap/IM reunion and eventual forgiveness. We got the paternal redemption for IM when Peter Parker came back, and his actual fatherhood. We got the men building the time machine, and pretty much leading the whole film, then we got that glorious moment where everyone was there, and the women stepped up as if taking the baton ready for the next step.

It'll be interesting to hear what the next big film is. Obviously we've got Spiderman (conveniently all of his friends also got snapped, so none of them are now 5 years older) and (As)Guardians of the Galaxy is back on, but I would hope the first big announcement post-Endgame is a female-helmed film. (Esp as a lot of the surviving men are off to Disney+)

Someone at work just said that the film was like a spoof of avengers and some characters like hulk and Thor were joke versions and that she couldn't tell if it was all a piss take or not. Have to agree!

The women avengers was so cheesy because they didn't even help CM, she didn't need it and she dashed off and fought thanos without their help anyway. Such a token scene that was cringeworthy.

I still feel let down and I watched it yesterday!

Nat did get a mention after she died - albeit not much of one. Someone asked if there was anyone needing to be told about her death and Steve said no, that they were the only family she had. Meanwhile Hulk was sad and thumped things. Then a rocket barrage hit and they all had to move on. I do hope the new Avengers training camp HQ place has a memorial to her as well as to IM and Cap. She didn't have a home by a lake or any other place where it would be appropriate to have a memorial type thing.

Nat was also spoken about by Clint and Wanda after Tony's funeral. Also by Hulk just before Steve went to return the stones. And there was quite a bit of discussion by the lake after Clint returned alone with Thor getting angry/upset and Hulk throwing a bench.

I completely forgot the bench throwing. It's already starting to get hazy in my memory!

Yes and didn’t Hulk say he tried to bring her back with everyone else when he clicked?

I also found the 'women of marvel' scene cheesy as well. I don't need a cheesy scene to tell me that the women are just as capable as the male characters.

I didn't see Natasha dying as being she was worthy to do so because she didn't have kids. Her and Clint has a genuine platonic love for each other. A male female friendship that wasn't anything more and yet shown to be just as valuable. She sacrificed herself for him because he was her family. She loved him she was brave. I thought it was one of the best moments in the film

Strongly agree with @MsMarvellous on the above. Nat did it for Clint, not because she was more disposable.

I also found the 'women of marvel' scene cheesy as well. I don't need a cheesy scene to tell me that the women are just as capable as the male characters.

This ^

Yep, agree completely @MsMarvellous I knew it was coming as soon as they went off to Vormir, but it still hit hard.

I read an interesting article that talked about how the Russo brothers had let Thor down after the amazing job Taika Waititi had done to develop the character in Thor:Ragnarok, and I felt there was some truth in it.

here

I also found the 'women of marvel' scene cheesy as well. I don't need a cheesy scene to tell me that the women are just as capable as the male characters

Maybe it was for those who did need such a scene....

Nat got sacrificed because she was stronger than BirdsEye and got to make the sacrifice. They were both battling to go over the cliff, she whooped him.

@Iggly Why should one cheesy scene shoved into a 3 hour film be the one to remind people that women are capable?

Writing strong female characters and making them valuable to the plot is what should make the characters stand out, not giving them a token scene.

@crazycatgal because that’s the world we live in. I know women are capable.
But many do not think that way, and you have to use different ways of spelling these things out to people.
We live in a mans world sadly where the default ideal is male!

Just watched the start of Age of Ultron and IM has some vision via Scarlet Wotch of them all dying and Cap says ' you could have saved us you should have done more' - is this an omen?

The irony is that the Women in Marvel scene didn't really help show that Women in the franchise were capable. It was tokenism at best .

The only true female Avenger (who had been present through the series) had been killed before the scene. You couldn't have had a "Women of Avengers" scene with her in it because pretty much most of the women had been killed off as being "surplus", or just absent.

Not only that, they were running the gauntlet... through the gauntlet (?!) to get the stones to a man to resolve the problem.

Captain Marvel (who had a few minutes previously sunk a whole battleship in 2 seconds) needed help to get through a field, and just so happened to be stood near all the other women, who then rose through the dust for a selfie-like moment. To me it only served to highlight the weak character formation of most of them. It was naff.

Also why does scarlet witch have an accent in Ultron and not later on?

Who pays for the damage to all the buildings etc when the Avengers destroy buildings so casually? In Ultron they've just brought down most of a city, loads of cars, market stalls etc