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thread for people who have seen Star Wars - spoilers

244 replies

SouthWestmom · 18/12/2015 16:39

So, we are all being v good on the other three but I am desperate to discuss it.
So, why do we think Luke had such a teeny role (not even a flashback) and was anyone else a bit disappointed by the lack of light sabre action?

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SouthWestmom · 18/12/2015 22:24

It was obvious one of them was going over the bridge though wasn't it?

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HanSolo · 18/12/2015 22:40

Had to go back to this name! Too good an opportunity to waste Grin

I thought there were some great one-liners in this one, if I do say so myself Wink

KyloRen · 19/12/2015 00:24

Hi Dad. Sorry about..y'know.

GeneralLeia · 19/12/2015 00:36

When Han calls out to Kylo on that bridge walkway thing he shout Ben, doesn't he? I was sure he did but my DH (HUGE fan who usually misses nothing and has seen it twice now) didn't notice.

So now I'm doubting myself. I assumed he was named Ben due to Obi Wan going by Ben.

I need it to be Ben so I can go ner ner at DH.

GrimDamnFanjo · 19/12/2015 00:39

Rey and Ben/Kylo twins? She has to be either from Luke or leia.
I felt a bit confused - glad ir wasn't as goddam awful as any of 1-3 but found it almost a reboot of 4 iyswim.

MaximilianNero · 19/12/2015 00:58

Yes he shouted 'Ben' (the Wiki confirms his name is Ben Solo). I don't know whether I liked Kylo/Ben or not - he really wasn't what I expected when he took the mask off.

I thought it was a great film, certainly better than all the prequels - especially Daisy Ridley, she was fantastic, really carried the movie and made it feel like hers, not 'all about Luke' which it could have been since he was the focus of the mission. My sister saw the film with me and actually the first thing she said afterwards was that she thought Rey looked quite like Padme. I reckon she could well be Luke's daughter. Finn was also very good, and he and Rey had a very believable on-screen screen chemistry IMHO. I also thought these lightsaber battles were better choreographed and more intense than the prequel ones. I really appreciated the general lack of impossibly high force jumps.

GeneralLeia · 19/12/2015 02:30

Thanks, Nero.

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 06:54

For me, Ben wasn't mature enough to be Kylo. The two didn't match up. He came across as a stripped teen when unmasked and I'm not sure how he would have risen up in the ranks. Plus, wouldn't people ( inside the dark side) think the mask was a bit weird, without the injuries?

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 06:55

Stripping not stripped

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 06:56

Argh😀 stroppy

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iisme · 19/12/2015 07:42

Well, Kylo Ren didn't rise through the ranks. He would have gone straight to the top when he defected because he's the only trained Jedi in the universe apart from Luke. He's clearly still v childish in many ways.

So my questions. Who made that map and why? Did Luke make it s a little game for them to find it? Or who else made it and why didn't they just tell people where Luke was? And how did that person find him? And why was there a memory stick with only a bit of the map on? And seriously - a memory stick plot line in 2015?!

Also, why did everyone, good and bad, want to find Luke? I get it in theory, Jedi knight, etc. But what had he actually done that was useful in the last 30 years? As far as I could tell, he'd trained one apprentice so badly that he'd defected and then gone off in a massive strip for ten (not quite sure of timeline?) years.

I think it'll make rewatching 4-6 a bit different. It's so triumphant at the end of 6, but now we know that within 30 years they were basically back to where they started politically - nothing seems to be any better - and all three of them have pretty miserable lives. I think the bleakness of it is pretty plausible and interesting but definitely has a narrative impact on the original trilogy. And what about the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force - doesn't it undermine that a bit?

I did think it was great but a little too much of a rehash of IV. Some of that worked really well, esp the father-son thing, but some if it was too contrived.

And ... oh Han. It was brilliantly done but nooooooo!

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 07:49

Oh yes, I forgot that all the rest died/ were killed off. Luke was training them and then Ben turned bad and so Luke stropped off?
At the beginning I'm sure they said who had created the map, I need to Google.

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 08:00

Well I totally missed that kylo killed all the younglings. May need to watch again.

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NickAngel · 19/12/2015 08:07

How has Luke survived on that island for so long?
If he is so good and strong with The Force he would have known what had happen of was going to happen so why did he run away? Or did he do it to set up Rey and Finn finding him and therefore meeting his daughter (?) after she had proved herself?
Who would be Rey's mum if she is a sky walker?

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 08:30

I did wonder that. Maybe there's a lake with fresh water and some veg lying around?

Who was the old guy chatting to Poe - were they both resistance people?

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HanSolo · 19/12/2015 08:59

I think Max von Sydow's character is an old rebel alliance general. Or an ancient nazi hiding out on another planet, of course Wink

I'm not sure he's dead either, didn't see him killed, did we?

Isn't Luke just surviving on midichlorians or something...

I thought BenRen was excellent, actually. He has exactly the right level of stropiness, and internal conflict you'd expect. The self-doubt and desire to prove himself that his father and grandfather had. The lust for power, countered by the urge to do the right thing, but obstructed by the desire to please and follow his master. The tendency to show off was very Anakin. I thought it was very well done. It was very believable his obsession with his GF, I thought, and thus the whole black outfit and mask. I had missed the bit about him killing the younglings, but again that's mirroring Anakin.

Hux was superb. He was cruel, menacing, driven, very well acted too. I really got the sense that he hated BenRen, that he would have been in BenRen's place if he had been blessed with the Force rather than BenRen. He was rather effective at getting things done, and didn't smash up stuff when it went wrong, either Grin

iisme- isn't that just what happens after conflict? 30 years later, is anyone involved any better off, or in a better position? look at WW2 after WW1 for example. I think it's trying to get across the idea that even though the rebels defeated the Empire, the universe is so huge that it had very little impact on ordinary people, who are still slaves in all but name. Local warlords still control everything, either through strength or military might, or by controlling the resources of fuel, food, and water. The fact that the main three characters were off doing what they'd always done just made it more believable I think. It brought home the belief that we are all flawed, and just insignificant specks of dust in a giant cosmos.

iisme · 19/12/2015 09:50

Han - I'm not saying it isn't plausible - actually I think it's very plausible that a rebel overthrow of a military dictatorship leads to a power vacuum that is filled by an organisation that turns out to be more or less the same as the original one. I'm just saying that from the point of view of watching a story of the little guys beating the system and winning the day, it's not very satisfactory from a narrative point of view, when we are watching episodes 4-6. It lowers the stakes a lot. And I think it would have been both narratively more satisfying and more interesting if the political situation had been a bit more different to in eps 4-6 - though obviously not some utopian ideal, which would have been neither plausible nor interesting.

I totally missed the whole Luke's academy thing and Ren killing the younglings - that actually makes a lot more sense. I agree that BenRen was excellent and his story is fascinating. I long to find out more about those years - what his relationship with Han was like before he defected, what happened to Han and Leia before and after (the general story is clear, but how it all fell out), etc. V emotionally powerful. I thought the scenes with Han and Leia and with Han and Ren were by far the best in the film.

I think that Rey is Han and Leia's daughter and Ren's sister - though I can't really come up with a backstory for that that makes a huge amount of sense. A daughter of Luke's that he never knew about makes more sense, but I don't like it so much!

NickiFury · 19/12/2015 13:09

I thought Ben was perfect tbh. I recognise the actor from other stuff so was quite excited when it turned out to be him. He's growing isn't he; he is very much still at the beginning of his journey to the dark side, I think we will see him grow into what we expect over the next few movies.

I think Rey is definitely Luke's daughter and I think he left her there to keep her safe. I think that's why he left too, to take focus off where she was and keep people thinking about him. Obviously R2D2 was told to go into low power mode until the time was right.

HanSolo · 19/12/2015 13:19

So. Watched it again this morning.
You do see MvS die, sorry.

I think Rey definitely is Luke's daughter.I also think BenRen has the hots for her.

HanSolo · 19/12/2015 13:20

It's the old love triangle from the first ones. With one side not being able to requite because he's related.

HanSolo · 19/12/2015 13:22

There really is no reference to BenRen killing any trainees though other than the voices Rey hears.

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SouthWestmom · 19/12/2015 14:26

No I read that on a website.

Did my one else find the flashbacks at the light sabre really fast and confusing? I couldn't really follow it.

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Straycatblue · 19/12/2015 16:22

Not sure if Im allowed to mention the books, apologies if Im not,

In the books Han and Leia have 3 children, the firstborn are twins, one of whom is forced to turn to the dark side after being trained by Luke at his Jedi academy but his name is Jacen/ Darth Caedus and his twin sister Jaina a jedi has to kill him after he commits multiple atrocities.
Luke marries a former assassin trained by the emperor called Mara Jade and has a son called Ben.

So whilst Disney have said they arent following the books and are creating their own universe, there are some similarities.
Where that leaves Rey isnt clear, I suspect its more likely shes Lukes daughter. After all thats gonna leave some leeway for a dramatic Skywalker " I am your father" moment, unless shes Kylo Rens daughter, not sure what age hes supposed to be in the movie considering his parents are in their 60s/70s. The BenRen actor looks too young for that though.

I think it explains in the movie that Leia is desperate to find Luke as she thinks hes the only one that can bring BenRen back from the dark side and she wants to save her son. The whole secret map thing I didnt think was very well explained, who made it and why, or Ive forgotten, I need to watch it again Grin

HanSolo · 19/12/2015 18:29

I had the impression Luke made the map, as he was with BB8 in the flashback sequence.
I think Luke with Mara Jade is a possibility, there's no reason to abandon canon like that.

WeirdCatLadyIsFeelingFestive · 19/12/2015 19:29

We went to see it this afternoon and I thought it was magnificent! It's now my fave film from the whole series, narrowly beating Empire Strikes Back.

I loved the whole thing, it had humour, action, fun, sadness and I loved the fact that we finally had a girl with a lightsaber. I want my own BB-8!