How girls and women dress in western countries *MNHQ adding content warning for SA as requested*

[Hadmysay]

It's an interesting conversation

www.tiktok.com/@danielle90sbaby/video/7501747121238936854

www.tiktok.com/@meetthealis/video/7503903907920317718. Is this unfeminist to feel like this or do they have a point?

@RowsOfFlowers I told you we’d agree about more than you think.

Yep, we can only imagine what kind of world view the OP might be passing down to any children that she might have. For their own sake, I hope she doesn't have daughters. For everyone else's sake, I hope she doesn't have sons. But I suppose there is still hope that her kids may yet reject the OP's fucked up views regardless of their sex.

Good grief. I didn't see that one. It looks like she has called for imprisonment for breaking a secular version of Sharia law FFS. I won't be talking to her again as it's impossible to reason with fanatical authoritarians.

Yes, flogging is out, she just wants them put in prison. OP apparently has no idea how awful prison is.

To be fair, I live in close proximity to a number of secondary schools - one mixed and one for girls only and a lot of the girls DO wear very short skirts

You'd be wrong. They suffer greater rates of sexual assault usually from their husbands. And OP why are you on a feminist chat with these disgusting regressive damaging views?

Women aren't brainwashed into thinking they have to dress a certain way.

Of course they are.
Or do you think media manipulation and social influence aren't a real thing?
Do you think subconscious messaging isn't a real thing as well?
I can assure you they are real.
You might not see it because you like to dress a certain way but it's real

I was asked about the unhealthy lifestyle choices what women do not what men do.
Hence why I didn't include men

Tbf whatever I post your still not going to accept the truth but here's some stats.
I await you making excuses as to why it's not true and how "men CAn rApe TheIR WivEs legallY IN MuSlim couNTries" so we will never know the actual statistics

https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/rape-statistics-by-country

I also await the usual about how it's underreported etc

Can you explain why rape and sexual assault is much lower than the uk?
https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/rape-statistics-by-country

Also to answer your question theres a much greater onus on men to provide for the most part. I think a lot of the time when we think of the gender gap we are looking at things through a somewhat western lens like whos in the workforce. Where as in kuwait whilst there are many women who work and have careers there's so much more to life for them than that. Most of their men actually take pride in providing for their wives,women in their family etc so a lot of women will be quite happy with the so called "gender gap" if it gives them time to have fun,spend time with family,friends etc

Send me them

I'm so sorry to hear that your experience of men has been so negative. You say that you have no trauma but you've obviously been surrounded by lots of incredibly misogynistic men and you seem to have reached the conclusion that all men are inevitably like this. It would seem that you have normalised the behaviour of the shitty men around you and extrapolated from that to believe that men are just like that and this can never change

Not all men are like what I said but I know enough of them to know what a good percentage of them are like which most women are oblivious to.

My DH comes from a different country, not a Muslim one but one where women tend to dress "modestly" for cultural reasons. Women are certainly not safer in his country than in the west. Quite the contrary, to be honest. Their "modest" dress and relative lack of freedom appears to offer them no protection at all, and I would feel quite unsafe there on my own.

Good thing I never once said that all muslim countries are safe for women or all countries where women cover up are safe.

So it's hardly surprising that the stats will be lower in some places, but you're kidding yourself if you believe that this means that women are safer in those places.

Again depends on the country

Can you show me any stats to back this up?
And most muslim men aren't raping and sexually assaulting their wives btw. I don't think that's a road you want to go down

I'm sure it's not most, I certainly would hope not. The point is that your comparative statistics are literally meaningless given that culturally and legally it's treated completely differently. You have no evidence to prove your assertions, it's that simple. If we essentially legalised robbery except for one or two extreme examples, and made it massively taboo to report with potential punishments for the victim, I'm sure our statistics would look great. They would also mean bugger all if we were looking to gain any insight or compare with countries where it isn't treated like that.

Can I ask why you think other women are oblivious while you have so much insight? What is it exactly that you think qualifies you to know so much better than everyone else? All that you've offered up so far is that you know a lot of men and that a good percentage of the men that you know think in deeply misogynistic ways. I mean, we all know that the world has plenty of nasty, misogynistic men, so there is nothing particularly insightful in recognising that. It just seems that you are unfortunate enough to have been surrounded by a much higher proportion of nasty misogynistic men than the rest of us. Not sure if that's something to do with the circles that you move in or just sheer bad luck. Either way, I'm sorry, but your bad experiences aren't necessarily representative.

Anyway, thank you for acknowleding that covering up doesn't actually make women safe. That's the point that many of us have been making all along.

It's quite interesting, actually, that you've said that it depends on the country and that not all countries where women cover up are safe.

The only logical conclusion from that is that covering up or not covering up is not actually the determining factor, so there must be other cultural and societal factors at play.

Nice assumption about how I dress. You couldn't be more wrong. However, I don't judge other women for what I wear. I just wear what I feel good in, which would be attire that would meet with your approval.

Nope. Look at the first three pages of the thread like I did. If you don't. I'm going to assume you just don't want to see evidence.

@Hadmysay

Kuwait has a troubling human rights record and women are affected by infantalising guardianship laws.

Culturally they have regressive views around "honour" and there is a lot of stigma about rape and sexual assault. Little is done when it's reported and therefore it's rarely reported.

Kuwaiti women had their own #metoo movement with many speaking out about sexual harassment.

Laws around marrying your rapist, minimum age of marriage, so called honour based violence, domestic abuse and marital rape, have only just been changed. I believe there's no age of consent.

You are deluded if you think women are happy with being repressed because they can spend more time with their friends.

RE unhealthy behaviour. I wasn't talking about women.

Also some troubling statistics about CSA:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322372514_Child_sexual_abuse_data_from_an_Arabian_Gulf_country_revisited

Not all men are like what I said but I know enough of them to know what a good percentage of them are like which most women are oblivious to.

1. What makes you think most women are unaware and that you alone know the truth? What an arrogant point of view. As many of us are survivors, trust me, we know very well how men are. A lot better than you.
2. That’s the whole fucking point why your rules /laws wouldn’t work. Men will still do what they want to do , just find different excuses . Excuses handed to them on a platter really if the women deviated even in the smallest way from your rules. Or they’d focus on the most vulnerable girls/women and target them even more. What was she doing outside the boys’ school? Why was she in the male/mixed carriage? Why was she wearing a skirt/shorts above the knee? And so on. Men would still behave the same way they always did, while women’s lives would become smaller and smaller in the name of safety.

I'm not saying that clothing does cause rape but that's not the best source tbf. It's just an opinion piece by a feminist without any real data (unlike the objectification one earlier in thread which had pages and pages of references to actual studies, science, and psychology).

I think this middle east thing is undermining the argument tbf. It's hardly surprising that there'd be more rape in a misogynist country that stones women to death for dating outside of marriage. And there's the awkward fact that these men are 10x worse when they come over here - see the 1200 sexual assaults on that NYE in Germany and the latest sexual assault stats about foreign nationals (e.g. committing 70% of sexual assaults in London despite being a fraction of the population).

The point is that your comparative statistics are literally meaningless given that culturally and legally it's treated completely differently. You have no evidence to prove your assertions, it's that simple

Ask for evidence,gets given evidence,doesn't accept evidence. Wash rinse and repeat

Anyway, thank you for acknowleding that covering up doesn't actually make women safe. That's the point that many of us have been making all along.

I didn't say that either.

It depends on loads of factors.
And your conclusion isn't as logical as you think.
ive always maintained in this thread its a complex issue there are different factors that contribute to it but In England and America there would be less sexual assault and rape if women covered up more and that I stand by. But it's up to them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Carry on. Nothing will change.
Carry on acting like oversexualizing yourself is healthy and has no bearing on women. Carry on.