How girls and women dress in western countries *MNHQ adding content warning for SA as requested*

[Hadmysay]

It's an interesting conversation

www.tiktok.com/@danielle90sbaby/video/7501747121238936854

www.tiktok.com/@meetthealis/video/7503903907920317718. Is this unfeminist to feel like this or do they have a point?

Then you deal with that accordingly and look at ways to combat it.

You haven't backed up anything you've said with evidence. You haven't learnt anything from the thread. You haven't read anything presented in the thread because if you had, you wouldn't still be coming out with the same BS. Now you're trying to 'educate' me with YouTube videos.

You have no self awareness if you're telling me I don't think.

wearing a short skirt isn’t objectifying yourself.

So why do prostitutes wear it? Why is it the streetwalkers in countries like Thailand and colombia wear it?
Oh is it to objectfy themselves? Is it to attract the attention of perverted men? YES. Yes it is.
Think about that next time you want to wear one.
Ask yourself do I want to be wearing a look what prostitutes wear? If so why?
And why am I wearing something that probably fits a child better than me

You haven't backed up anything you've said with evidence.

Neither have any of my detractors

Exactly. You haven't read any of the information presented to you in the thread.

Atleast watch this one

And this

https://www.tiktok.com/@karlaeliaa/video/7190595517649423662

No thanks. You come across as obsessed.

Except it isn't the truth.

Rape and sexual assault are rife in many countries where women tend to cover themselves more.

Your attempts to blame the victims doesn't actually make it their fault.

That will be due to other factors. Plus we don't have a breakdown of happiness for Kuwaiti people by sex.

If "modest" dress was a contributing factor to a country's performance in the happiness rankings, then you would expect to see countries where women typically cover themselves more leading the pack, but they don't. Many of the "happiest" countries are actually very chilled about stuff like that - look at the Scandinavian countries, for instance.

But you're not actually interested in facts, are you?

I wouldn't want to go to Iran and walk around in a miniskirt though tbf. I feel like that would defo increase the likelihood of assault.

It's only polite to adapt to the culture you are in when you are a visitor. However, OP is advocating for us in the West to become like the ME and make women voiceless, powerless and unseen so that the poor little men aren't tempted. Balls to that, they can control themselves or pay the price. The focus needs to be on taking rape prosecutions seriously.

For example up untill fairly recent it was legal to upskirt a woman i,e take a picture up her skirt

Upskirting was never legal, it was a newer crime that hadn’t YET been made illegal.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP is trying to do. It's been brought up many times that sexual assault is due to misogyny and a culture of impunity. Therefore she wants women to cover themselves up for 'moral' reasons. She doesn't approve of women showing their bodies or 'provocative' outfits.

Can you explain why you think that? Is it because the culture there views women and girls as subservient sexual objects, whose bodies do not belong to themselves?

I wouldn’t want to go to Iran full stop - get beaten to death for accidentally showing an inch of head hair? No thanks

Rape and sexual assault are rife in many countries where women tend to cover themselves more.

And it also happens less in many countries where women cover as well.
I'm not saying your a 100 percent wrong though because there are some countries where women cover.
But every country is different and every country has different contributing factors why rape happens.
And I'm telling you a big contributing factor for the uk,and usa whilst not the only factor is how women dress.
As I said before if pornography contributes to rape culture due to constant sexual images of women that how women dress i,e constant sexual images does as well.
You can't have it both ways. After all why do you think those pakistani grooming gangs saw white women as easy? How a lot of us dress contributed to that

I'm sorry, but you're utterly disgusting. You're blaming children for the fact that they were sexually exploited by adult men? Fucking shameful.

I feel like the lions den analogy is a good one.
I just don't understand fighting so hard for women to be able to dress like prostitutes.
Let me ask you do you think it's a net negative or positive for women in western countries to be dressing how they do?

@Hadmysay

I've picked you up a couple of times about your comments on children. Only pedophiles and perverts find children sexually attractive and only paedophiles groom and rape children.

The gangs groomed very young girls and girls from chaotic backgrounds, some with disabilities. They chose them because they were vulnerable and were allowed to continue with impunity.

The people meant to safeguard these children turned a blind eye because they had attitudes like you. You're also blaming them as you have been blaming all survivors of sexual assault. You're part of the problem.

Rape occurs because of misogyny and because there are no consequences. The grooming gangs trafficked and raped with impunity for decades.

It's been explained to you many times that the root of sexual assault is dominance, control and violence. Clothes don't cause rape and if they do, please provide that data. Back up what you're saying with facts instead of social media.

It is a net positive for women to be able to dress how they want.

You may disagree - misogynists are like that.

The only people responsible for rape are the people doing the actual raping.

I think it's a net positive for women to have the freedom to dress how they wish. If that means wearing skimpy clothes, then so be it. If it means wearing the the hijab or the niqab, then again, so be it.

Personally, I don't lean towards either extreme but I will not bend on my view that women should be able to make these choices for themselves. It is not for men, or indeed other women, to dictate how much flesh a woman should or shouldn't show.

You're the one characterising women as "dressing like prostitutes". I just see them as wearing what they want. Especially in the hot weather when they may just want to be cool.

Men don't rape women because of the way they dress. I know you're trying very hard to push that argument forward, but it simply isn't true. If a man rapes a woman, it is not because of anything that the woman has or hasn't done, it is because the man has the mindset of a rapist. You can try to shift the blame on to women all you like, but you are wrong to do so. The only people who are responsible for rape are the men who rape.

ETA - Cross posted with @pointythings who basically said the same thing in far fewer words!

Finally.
Thank you for agreeing with what I've been saying.
It's only taken us 28 pages and hundreds of replies.
So yes how women dress can sometimes contribute to rape and the objectification of women.
Again thanks for admitting it and agreeing with me

That's because they have views like you OP. The men feel entitled to sexually harass women and assault them and can do so with impunity. Its a deeply patriarchal society and women who contravene social norms can be arrested, raped and tortured. Women completely covered from head to toe are also harassed and assaulted.

You are bizarrely approving of open air prisons for women.

That is a shocking and disgusting thing to say. Those vulnerable girls mostly wore trackies and hoodies. Haven't they suffered enough at the hands of the despicable men from cultures that despise women, without you coming on here and defaming them?

You seem to be very angry OP at women who "walk roumd half naked", which you have repeated angrily over and over in your posts. Have you ever questioned yourself about where this anger comes from? Why are you fixated on this, and why does it matter to you so much? I think you would benefit from psychotherapy to unpack whatever upsetting reason there is in your background or history for your OTT responses to this issue. You do not seem to have much self-awareness, so I think it would help you develop that too.

Upskirting was never legal, it was a newer crime that hadn’t YET been made illegal.

So legal.

I'm blaming society.
Men and women included.
This is a societal problem.