How girls and women dress in western countries *MNHQ adding content warning for SA as requested*

[Hadmysay]

It's an interesting conversation

www.tiktok.com/@danielle90sbaby/video/7501747121238936854

www.tiktok.com/@meetthealis/video/7503903907920317718. Is this unfeminist to feel like this or do they have a point?

Let me ask you something.
Do you think it's a net negative or net positive for so many women to be dressing provocatively? And the majority of schoolgirls to be walking around with skirts halfway up their backsides?
Answer positive or negative. Let's see if you are ready to have an honest conversation and give an honest answer

The gangs groomed very young girls and girls from chaotic backgrounds

Some had chaotic backgrounds many didn't

You're also blaming them as you have been blaming all survivors of sexual assault. You're part of the problem

I've done no such thing.
Acknowledging contributing factors isnt blaming all survivors its being truthful.
Fact is many men western men included btw but mainly these men from different cultures,conservative cultures viewed western women/white women victims as easy because of casual sex being very popular amongst us and how we tend to dress compared to women in their culture.
Should they have done these bad things? Absolutely not but when you promote unhealthy lifestyles these are the consequences.
We should have never promoted such bad things such as casual sex and dressing scantily clad now look.
These are the consequences.

Rape occurs because of misogyny and because there are no consequences

Rape happens for many reasons.
The fact that you think it only happens for these two reasons tells me everything I need to know.Theres loads of reasons for rape.

It's been explained to you many times that the root of sexual assault is dominance, control and violence.

Where have I said that dominance and violence isn't sometimes a cause of rape?

Disagree.
Especially when it comes to an unhealthy lifestyle that causes more harm than good.
To girls and women.
We do need some standards.
No one should be allowed to dress how they want its ridiculous to think otherwise.
Should I be allowed to wear an offensive t shirt? Should men be allowed to walk around with their testicle hanging out?

I think it's a net positive for women to have the freedom to dress how they wish

disagree no one should be allowed to dress how they want hence why we have public indecency laws

Again thank you for agreeing with what I'm saying.
That's all I needed to hear.

It looks like no one agrees with you op. Best stay in for the next two weeks given the gorgeous weather and you can give your blood pressure and tyrannical views a rest.

You're totally missing the point that that the pp was making. I can't work out if this is because you just aren't intelligent enough to understand what she's saying or whether you simply hate women so much that you're choosing to ignore the point.

My instinct is that you're a man, and that you're either a rapist seeking to justify what you've already done or you're a wannabe rapist seeking to justify what you're aspiring to do. I can only hope, for your sake, that you aren't a woman who has been brainwashed into internalising the misogynistic shit that you're spouting because that would be truly tragic.

This really does sound like a comment from the sort of man I’m sure we can all recognise. Dozens of opinions and evidence to support the exact opposite of what his argument is, yet he somehow manages to pick up on a point made by someone who is trying to have a reasonable discussion, discards all evidence to the contrary and declares that he has “won” the argument.

I have been honest throughout. We fundamentally disagree on the nature of clothes. You believe women and girls are dressing in such a way in order to arouse sexual desire in men. I believe women and girls dress in such a way because they think they look nice. Children especially have no idea about perverts.

Women aren't responsible for men's behaviour.

You needed to hear what exactly?

I agree to an extent.

Those girls were groomed and raped because they were poor and othered. Just like the girls in Thailand that white men go to abuse.

It wasn’t rich white girls was it? And it isn’t rich girls in other countries who get sold off as young brides.

Abusers will go after whoever they can get away with abusing. On a small scale, yes they were abused because they were white. But that’s only because in that area the white girls were the poorest, most vulnerable and least likely to be believed.

Just look at the abuse scandal that happened in West Africa, where western aid workers were abusing young poor girls…

I agree that OP’s comments are awful but the ‘those men coming over here’ rhetoric is unhelpful. Trust me, just because ‘our’ western men don’t make us cover up, it doesn’t mean globally they are any better.

You do not dictate how people respond. Your question is based on a false premise anyway - unless you can provide research data on how 'the majority of schoolgirls' dress. Which you can't.

Define 'offensive'. I mean, some people would consider some of my T shirts offensive,even though there is no bad language or sexual images on any of them. They are however political.

A man with a ball hanging out is already breaking laws on indecent exposure.

why do you think those PAKISTANI grooming gangs saw white women as easy?

Because those PAKISTANI men have been raised in a culture which views girls and women as belonging to men, and as sexual objects rather than human beings. Op you are DISGUSTING

I hope you don't have children, OP - whether you are a man or a woman, and whether or not you are as you say British. Your views are not only abhorrent and baseless in their assumptions, but you seem incapable of listening and reflection. You have your (ill-thought out) script about women's clothes and keep repeating it no matter what others say. You seem to have an issue about this which is pathological. I think you need help. I hope you do not have influence over the young with your fixed and toxic outlook. Your mind may have been warped in some way about men and women, but you do not have the right to pass this on to anyone young.

“Women are asking to be raped by wearing clothes” is a weird hill to still be dying on.

Your views are at best conservative and at worst dangerous.

I’d love to see what you’re wearing today - it’s boiling where I am, so can confirm I’m in shorts. Better hope I don’t get deservedly accosted in Tesco.

Yep, I am wearing a top without sleeves and showing my - gasp!- shoulders!

@Hadmysay

Some had chaotic backgrounds many didn't

Many had chaotic backgrounds and all were vulnerable.

I've done no such thing.

You posted TikTok videos of women saying they'd blame their own children for being assaulted because of their clothes. You've victim blamed throughout the thread.

Acknowledging contributing factors isnt blaming all survivors its being truthful.

You haven't provided any evidence to back up your "truth".

Fact is many men western men included btw but mainly these men from different cultures,conservative cultures viewed western women/white women victims as easy because of casual sex being very popular amongst us and how we tend to dress compared to women in their culture.

Misogynists tend to do that. They don't see women as human beings with rights or agency. Sexual assault is rife in every ethnicity worldwide. It's through the roof in South America. A woman is murdered every 28 hours in Venezuela because it's corrupt, patriarchal and women aren't seen as important. Those men who see white women as one homogeneous mass, view all women like that.

Should they have done these bad things? Absolutely not but when you promote unhealthy lifestyles these are the consequences.

Rape and sexual assault is prevelant worldwide, despite lifestyle choices. The responsibility lies solely with the perpetrators.

We should have never promoted such bad things such as casual sex and dressing scantily clad now look.
These are the consequences.

Rape and sexual abuse existed when women dressed more conservatively, it's lessened in places where men are held to account.

Rape happens for many reasons.
The fact that you think it only happens for these two reasons tells me everything I need to know.Theres loads of reasons for rape.

You'll have to back up what you're saying with evidence. I'd like to read the reports on rape where misogyny isn't involved.

Where have I said that dominance and violence isn't sometimes a cause of rape?

Where you've consistently insisted that rape is the sole responsibility of victims including children.

I'm willing to bet OP is an angry, misogynistic incel. The stuff about schoolgirls is really alarming.

Get help @Hadmysay . And stop trying to police what women wear. It has nothing to do with their value or implied sexual availability; there are myriad reasons for what we all choose to wear and personally I'm delighted to live in a country where we have that freedom. Attitudes like yours are actually what drives rape culture. You should be ashamed.

I think it's a woman because I've argued with them before. There was a post a while ago about those TikTok videos of women going clubbing and they were coming out with the same claptrap.

As I said in a previous post, the fact that the men were Pakistani and the girls were white is relevant but don’t be fooled into thinking that white men don’t behave like this to poor vulnerable brown skinned girls elsewhere in the world.

Have you heard of the abuse scandal in West Africa where the men (western) aid workers abused hundreds of young vulnerable black girls?

Or the stories of young Thai girls and their experiences with older white British men?

Men of all colours and cultures abuse - and often girls that they view as different or worth less than the women in their own culture. Yes it was Pakistani men in this case - and poor vulnerable white girls - but globally that’s not always the case.

What is ALWAYS the same when in comes to systematic abuse is that the abusers are always male and the girls (or boys) are ALWAYS poor.

What is ALWAYS the same when in comes to systematic abuse is that the abusers are always male and the girls (or boys) are ALWAYS poor

@Bex5490 exactly this.

No one? She literally just agreed with what I've been saying

You're totally missing the point that that the pp was making.

How am I missing the point? She's literally said what I've been saying.
How women in the west anyways dress can sometimes contribute to rape and female objectification and how men perceive them. She said it.

Are you going to disagree with her? Theres also evidence on how men view women and society view women who dress like that.
Unpopular opinion there was never a need for women to dress like that during the sexual revolution and dressing scantily clad was and has been a mistake and we need to discourage it. It's been a massive mistake. It's just not worth the bother or harm that's been caused. There's so much evidence about the negative affects it has on society,young girls especially but this is what you are fighting for? Shame on you