How girls and women dress in western countries *MNHQ adding content warning for SA as requested*

[Hadmysay]

It's an interesting conversation

www.tiktok.com/@danielle90sbaby/video/7501747121238936854

www.tiktok.com/@meetthealis/video/7503903907920317718. Is this unfeminist to feel like this or do they have a point?

It's best to back up your opinions with facts, otherwise it just comes across as lazy rape myths.

What percentage of rapists aren't asserting dominance and control when they assault people?

I am not muslim.
With regards to living in the west and western values I've always said the best type of values are mixed. We can all learn from eachothers cultures.
From what I've seen the healthiest type of upbringing is judaic/ islamic values mixed with certain western values.
Western values like it being frowned upon to hit women,showing respect to animals,it being bad to hit children etc not walking around half naked and sleeping around.
The west is not all bad but definitely not all good either . And I am saying this as a British woman...
There's a reason why muslim women in western countries such as Uk,Usa and France they are by far less likely to be victims of sex based crimes,rape sexual assault,grooming etc cthan the "western women" of those countries.
Most of us here are from the uk and white yes?
The biggest victims is us.
The grooming gangs,the Rockstars in the 70s. Heck even the grown men in the 70s where it was encouraged and normal for underage girls to be with grown men. For decadea there has been a promotion of sheer and utter debauchery and damaging behaviour under the guise of feminism like we are seeing in this thread right now. it needs to stop. It's unhealthy.

I am british.

Here
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/10/4/report-exposes-sexual-abuse-of-uk-minorities

We won't. Just like you will never get me to agree it's good for women and children to be walking around half naked.

Our bodies are not sexual commodities op. This is your own blinkered faulty mindset. Conditioned to think women are ‘temptation’ to men.

We are human, we can live and be comfortable in our own skin. We can choose what clothes feel comfortable to us, and not cower in fear that some boogeyman will rape us if we wear shorts!

You can live your life in the shadows if you want, and live in perpetual fear if you want to, but you don’t get to inflict that on us. I love the freedom of my country. I celebrate expression, fashion and fun. I celebrate the female fiorm.

You may want to muzzle and tether up women’s freedom and choice and force us all to live in fear, but this will never happen. Wonen have a rich history of doing exactly what we want in this country, and we are working on more equality not less.

So you may as well give up op. Move to a country more aligned with your own values is my best advice, but don’t inflict then on us! We are happy as we are, thanks.

Look here's some words of advice.
If something causes damage,is unhealthy which it clearly is just don't do it.
It's not hard.
Just don't do it.
I don't get why there's such a push to dress like prostitutes. Like what do you achieve from it?
Why do you want to show everything off ? Why does your expression have to be scantily clad?
And life hasn't exactly gotten much better for us in the past 50 years has it?
It's pretty much two steps forward two steps back. Yes some things are better but other things are worse.
Do you really think objectifying the female body makes life easy for women ? It doesn't.
Ask yourself why in a cold country like england in minus degrees weather on a night out do we see many young women wearing next to nothing? That's patriachy and misogyny in itself. Because someone has brainwashed us into conforming to the male gaze and we have fell for it hook line and sinker.
And you are clearly not happy.
Why would you be happy living in a patriarchal society where it was only weeks ago we were able to define what a woman is? Or in a society full of paedophilia or female objectification? And everyday sexism.
You call this freedom but there needs to be another name. Freedumb.

Your point? It happens to all communities some more than others. Much more.
And I'm taking that article by al jazeera with a pinch of salt btw.
Since anyone can write an article it's as easy as type..post

Op. You sound deeply unhappy at the sight of all of this flesh and humanity, but I love to see flowing summer dresses, to cycle in shorts and t shirts or wear a backless dress to a garden party! I don’t see anyone looking like sex workers where I live, so I am not sure where you are but this is certainly not my experience at all. Are you even in the U.K.?

Women here look elegant, comfortable and confident. We wear bikinis and swim and sail, we work in trousers and we celebrate our right to choose every day. I feel very safe, I feel very free.

I work in the legal field, and I see so much progress both now and in the future. Don’t lose hope, things are changing for the better..

I am sorry you are so tormented; clearly you have issues and irrational fears. Have you been harmed in some way?

You can be free too, you don’t need to be afraid. Statistically you are most likely to be attacked, if you are going to be, by a family member or friend, so it doesn’t actually matter what you wear my friend.

@Hadmysay

There's a reason why muslim women in western countries such as Uk,Usa and France they are by far less likely to be victims of sex based crimes,rape sexual assault,grooming etc cthan the "western women" of those countries.

It's in response to this. It's based on a report: Unheard Voices: The Sexual Exploitation of Asian Girls and Young Women by the Muslim Women’s Network UK (MWNUK).

I've had to explain that to you because you're too lazy to read the article. Just as you're too lazy to take in the facts presented to you in your own thread. Just as you're continuing to repeat the same lazy rape myths and continuing to perpetuate rape culture.

I’d put good money on them being raped more, often within marriage.

Absolutely. As I've mentioned, rape within marriage isn't a crime in many of those countries. That makes the selecgtively quoted data OP is presenting look soooo good.

As for young women wearing little on nights out in the UK: Have you ever been to a club? It's hot as Hades inside. And bringing a coat is often not an option because there's nowhere to put it where it won't get nicked.

And even with the above, the bottom line is that whatever you wear, it isn't a license for a man to rape you. The problem isn't what women wear. It's men. Men, men, men. So stop it with the pathetic victim blaming already.3

@Hadmysay
Supposing somewhere in your arguments there’s a grain of truth. Suppose that a significant number of men are so physically, intellectually, ethically and morally weak and religiously deficient as to be unable to control their urges and desires and prioritise what is right.

Your ‘solution’ is to require women and girls to modify their dress and behaviour presumably. But why? Ask yourself if that’s because deep inside you think that women are less important - that they have a responsibility to accomodate men first - that they are just ‘support’ persons, rather than human beings with rights of their own.

The females aren’t hurting anyone else - why should they be the ones to change/ be restricted? They aren’t the ones going round shouting abusive comments at males, spitting or hissing at them, making assumptions about them based on the colour of their skins or ethnic or religious affiliations, or age or sexually assaulting or raping. They are not ‘causing’ crime.

Ask yourself why you are not suggesting heavy policing and criminal penalties for men including the banning of porn etc, possibly a curfew at night. Why are extreme religious regimes not controlling male movement and freedom to abuse/ rape? Where are the men being taught not to ogle women, to treat them with respect, or being blinded or castrated for sexual harassment and abuse, instead of the women being raped, whipped and stoned?

I don’t think most ppl here are arguing that wearing next to nothing is some kind of act of empowerment.

The point is more about women’s rights to choose.

Say we go with your theory that women should cover up. How do you intend to police that? What are the consequences for a woman who doesn’t abide by the rules?

And if women (unlike men) have to abide by clothing laws, what other laws begin to seem reasonable?

Should women be bound by law to be married because they’re ‘safer?’

Or only live in certain neighbourhoods?

Or only go out when it’s light?

It’s a dangerous path to go down when you begin to restrict women’s freedoms. And ultimately, men will have you believe that the safest place is covered up and locked away from the world with one of them - when in reality, that’s the place you’re most likely to suffer some kind of sexual abuse.

My post above is in response to this btw

What percentage of rapists aren't asserting dominance and control when they assault people?

Well surely both these are prerequisites when raping somebody? You need to control and dominate them to do it.

But similarly when people say rape 'isn't about sex' this seems like a contradiction too because rape is by definition forced sex, so it's absolutely about sex. The sexual element is what differentiates it from common assault.

Rape isn't about sexual desire. The primary cause of rape is not that men cannot control their sexual urges, It's primarily an act of dominance and control.

Soldiers who rape during war aren't doing it because they are overcome with lust. They're doing it as an act of subjugation; to humiliate and violate their enemies.

I do wonder though how anyone can know this…

Like surely some men take sexual gratification in the dominance and control?

If the motivation was exclusively control or dominance then all rapists would rape anyone and not the object of their desire.

As vile as the concept is, most rapists have a type when it comes to their victims. And I’m assuming that’s because they rape the type of person they’re sexually attracted to.

And I’m assuming that’s because they rape the type of person they’re sexually attracted to.

Not necessarily. There's research on this too - the victim is often a proxy for someone else:

• An abusive or neglectful mother
• A previous partner who has rejected him, or who was never a partner but still rejected him
• Someone who reminds him of a person who did him wrong in early life

It's never as straightforward as 'he likes blondes' or 'she was wearing a short skirt'.

Which is why we need to be very careful about placing the onus for preventing rape on women.

I've often wondered where the 'rape is about power' thing came from. When I've googled it I usually find a lot of articles written by feminists. I did read a piece in a psychology journal and they said that the patterns of offending and variables are so numerous that nobody can really say for sure and more research is needed.

Certainly when we hear of famous sportsmen raping women during a drunken night out I think sexual attraction must've played a part. Because usually they've gone up to the man's room for drinks and then it's escalated from there. Often the woman says she 'didn't go with him for sex' but I doubt the man had any other intentions from the start tbh.

OP after watching the first video I'm interested as to what is the length of skirt that makes raping a school girl ok? Above the knee? Below the bum cheek? Just so we can clarify when it is the victim's fault. What if they were wearing tight clothes?

Please report this thread - I have.

Op's posts are outrageous.

Bullshit.

I went to a country like that.

As an 18 year old.

Wearing modest clothing, a long (down to my sandals) wide (not figure hugging) skirt, and a long sleeved t-shirt for sun protection. I have family in that country so know it very well and speak the language.

I was also wearing a sun hat and sun glasses so really pretty fucking covered.

My parents walk a few steps ahead and I was sexually assaulted twice by 2 different men on this walk in the middle of the day in the middle of the city.

I am gobsmacked about the victim blaming and blatant sexualisation of young women and girls this 'discussion'.

Fuck right off OP. Fuck off and don't come back

As vile as the concept is, most rapists have a type when it comes to their victims.

Could you give a link to that evidence please?

And I’m assuming that’s because they rape the type of person they’re sexually attracted to

Evidence please.

Anyone would think you hadn't read the thread and just weighed in. Surely it's been said enough times that the vast majority of women are raped by someone they know.

Like surely some men take sexual gratification in the dominance and control?

Of course, it's been found that rapists are turned on by the idea of violence and non consensual sex.