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Feminism: chat

Is it really Andrew Tate or do some boys just have terrible role models in the home?

325 replies

snughugs · 19/04/2025 11:26

I’m seeing all this sexism in class stuff on TV just now, they blame Andrew Tate for everything. I bet a lot of these boys have Fathers and male role models who are the type of men we read about on the relationship boards here. You know the guys who want a submissive provider.

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Maitri108 · 19/04/2025 11:27

There's an article today about boys watching porn, reading misogyny on social media and barking at female teachers.

Social media is being blamed.

crumblingschools · 19/04/2025 11:28

It’s important that Andrew Tate doesn’t get all the blame. He definitely has a huge influence but he isn’t the only influence and we mustn’t lose sight of that

BlondiePortz · 19/04/2025 11:32

Well how many children have a male role at home in the first place and if they do how many are fit to be a parent?

How many red flags are being ignored before people have children in the first place?

Hairsterical · 19/04/2025 11:33

I don’t like to toe into censoring free speech or anything but iMO a lot of the damage traces directly to Tate and his crew. My DS was in thrall to this loser despite (because of??) having a loving and engaged provider-dad at home and family values based on respect and tolerance. Tate offers easy answers to those confused by wokeness and man’s modern role etc.

Tatemoderndrawyourown · 19/04/2025 11:53

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Maitri108 · 19/04/2025 11:58

Hairsterical · 19/04/2025 11:33

I don’t like to toe into censoring free speech or anything but iMO a lot of the damage traces directly to Tate and his crew. My DS was in thrall to this loser despite (because of??) having a loving and engaged provider-dad at home and family values based on respect and tolerance. Tate offers easy answers to those confused by wokeness and man’s modern role etc.

What are young boys confused by?

snughugs · 19/04/2025 12:11

That’s a good point perhaps young boys are confused by non binary woke stuff and struggle to identify but that doesn’t excuse them not being kind and loving to women and instead seeing them as sex objects.

I think of men I’ve known who are not of good character. Some have had useless Fathers and enabling misogynistic Mothers who fill their son’s head when they’re such a good catch and women are out to trap them. Then the Mother’s wonder why they’re 45 and single and visiting prostitutes.

Also as someone who’s done some online dating it’s seems few are raised to behave like gentlemen. Get doors, turn up early, be polite these are middle aged men. They’ve no zero self respect. Although I accept online dating has a lot of dregs, but some of these men are Fathers!

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MissyB1 · 19/04/2025 12:15

It's a mix of both. And it's not just Tate who is grooming them online, there are plenty more out there just like him. But yes home influence is still extremely important(keeping those lines of communication open), but also peer group pressure. Dh and I have kept a close eye on ds friendships and made it our business to know who they are, what their families are like etc.. Also he has never had the total freedom and lack of supervision that seems to happen with a lot of his year group.

Attictroll · 19/04/2025 12:35

I think it’s a mix …. Even in adolescence the dad’s aggressive behaviour which I turn is seen as a less version of his own dads is seen as an input. Times have changed but many men family and work people can still sound aggressive and be casually misogynistic. I think the woke thing hasn’t helped either.

MiserableMrsMopp · 19/04/2025 12:41

BlondiePortz · 19/04/2025 11:32

Well how many children have a male role at home in the first place and if they do how many are fit to be a parent?

How many red flags are being ignored before people have children in the first place?

I definitely resonate with the 2nd part of this statement. I don't think it's about how many have male role models, it's about the examples of masculinity they have in front of them whether that be in the home, in the media, at school or in life in general.

And we know as women (opposed to teenage girls) how many men fall short of being completely rounded people, because we have experienced this. Wanting women to be their maids, expecting sex on tap, valuing women only on appearance, being irresponsible, not being adequate parents. We bandy around terms like cock-lodger, nanny with a fanny, nurse with a purse. It's ALL about men using women in one way or another. I think NO man in the house is better than one of these bad examples.

Primary schools need good, male teachers. We need clubs / outside of school places for children with good, caring men.

There needs to be a reflection of positive masculinity in front of our children's eyes at all times. Because how do they grow into something good unless they can watch it and learn from it?

Newgirls · 19/04/2025 12:42

It’s porn. It’s TikTok music videos. It’s all of it.

Hiddenmnetter · 19/04/2025 13:02

I think boys and young men don’t just need positive role models, they also need instruction on how to integrate their sexuality into their person. Male and female sexuality is different- whatever the cause, whether it’s more testosterone or whatever it is- male sexuality is a) more externally focused and b) more aggressive (I know NAMALT and some women are like this too, but vastly, in the majority it is like this). That’s why there are examples of men having sex with animals, trees, inanimate objects, children- and some of these perversions aren’t exactly infrequent. Vastly, in the main, this is not a female problem.

The job of growing up as a man is to teach young men self-restraint. Women also obviously need self control but in a different way. The task for young men is to reign their sexual impulses in, and to channel these energies into productive and good tasks- the prevalence with which men tend to engage in physical sports is a good means of this. One of the big problems however is the way in which our society teaches young men to masturbate- it is teaching them not to control their sexual impulses, but to release it as and when they like. The outcomes of this- pornography and other sexual depredations- aren’t hard to see the link.

Andrew Tate isn’t the problem as such- he merely represents a means of unleashing male impulses- not being ashamed or not having to control yourself. The problem with uncontrolled male sexual impulses is that they invariably result in the oppression of those against whom they are unleashed- women and children. All men go through this, and it is incumbent upon men to raise their sons in a different way. It’s not about dads being engaged or providing or loving or whatever else- these are good things and by far preferable to the alternative- but dads have a duty to train their sons in self control and self denial. The alternative is the oppression of those around them, and I think many men who have grown up in a culture that has slowly and imperfectly trained them a) don’t realise what’s happened and b) don’t always see the connection.

I think men also have the problem of being embarrassed- it isn’t easy to talk about these things with your kids. Not even to mention how horrified and embarrassed the kids will be in the same context. It’s a long and complex process that isn’t just tied to sexuality. Achieving a level of balance and self control as a man has repercussions for how you experience anger, and the ability to suffer for those you love.

Where our society values less and less the impetus to suffer and deny yourself, the outcome is men who more and more have problems with anger, violence, sexual perversion and other emotional instability. The problem is men are a) more physically powerful than women and b) socially dominant. The outcome of these factors means that when men are disregulated like this, those who are weaker and vulnerable to them will suffer. Men have to know that their first priority is to suffer for those they love and to deny themselves. It’s a hard task, and having someone like Andrew Tate who advertises the opposite- don’t suffer, don’t control yourself, let yourself feel the full extent of your power and morbid passions- it’s enticing to boys and young men who haven’t yet learned the horror and the shame of the damage they can cause.

snughugs · 19/04/2025 13:26

Hiddenmnetter · 19/04/2025 13:02

I think boys and young men don’t just need positive role models, they also need instruction on how to integrate their sexuality into their person. Male and female sexuality is different- whatever the cause, whether it’s more testosterone or whatever it is- male sexuality is a) more externally focused and b) more aggressive (I know NAMALT and some women are like this too, but vastly, in the majority it is like this). That’s why there are examples of men having sex with animals, trees, inanimate objects, children- and some of these perversions aren’t exactly infrequent. Vastly, in the main, this is not a female problem.

The job of growing up as a man is to teach young men self-restraint. Women also obviously need self control but in a different way. The task for young men is to reign their sexual impulses in, and to channel these energies into productive and good tasks- the prevalence with which men tend to engage in physical sports is a good means of this. One of the big problems however is the way in which our society teaches young men to masturbate- it is teaching them not to control their sexual impulses, but to release it as and when they like. The outcomes of this- pornography and other sexual depredations- aren’t hard to see the link.

Andrew Tate isn’t the problem as such- he merely represents a means of unleashing male impulses- not being ashamed or not having to control yourself. The problem with uncontrolled male sexual impulses is that they invariably result in the oppression of those against whom they are unleashed- women and children. All men go through this, and it is incumbent upon men to raise their sons in a different way. It’s not about dads being engaged or providing or loving or whatever else- these are good things and by far preferable to the alternative- but dads have a duty to train their sons in self control and self denial. The alternative is the oppression of those around them, and I think many men who have grown up in a culture that has slowly and imperfectly trained them a) don’t realise what’s happened and b) don’t always see the connection.

I think men also have the problem of being embarrassed- it isn’t easy to talk about these things with your kids. Not even to mention how horrified and embarrassed the kids will be in the same context. It’s a long and complex process that isn’t just tied to sexuality. Achieving a level of balance and self control as a man has repercussions for how you experience anger, and the ability to suffer for those you love.

Where our society values less and less the impetus to suffer and deny yourself, the outcome is men who more and more have problems with anger, violence, sexual perversion and other emotional instability. The problem is men are a) more physically powerful than women and b) socially dominant. The outcome of these factors means that when men are disregulated like this, those who are weaker and vulnerable to them will suffer. Men have to know that their first priority is to suffer for those they love and to deny themselves. It’s a hard task, and having someone like Andrew Tate who advertises the opposite- don’t suffer, don’t control yourself, let yourself feel the full extent of your power and morbid passions- it’s enticing to boys and young men who haven’t yet learned the horror and the shame of the damage they can cause.

This is an excellent take. I agree I know studies have been done on working class barriers to higher education and one of the main factors is they struggle with delayed gratification. In years gone by with the power of religion young men had this or at least understood this. Now their parents don’t think beyond instant gratification and neither do they, of course that’s going to cause issues. Instant gratification in my opinion is moving in men quickly into the family home. Years ago that wouldn’t happen they’d be expected to marriage and take on the family. Plenty other examples in our lives now that show no self control.

I also agree about masculine sports, helps with aggression. Thanks I think you’ve got it nailed here.

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NPET · 19/04/2025 14:24

Yes it's too easy to blame Tate for everything.
He's a b-st-rd BUT boys' attitudes come from their fathers, brothers, male cousins, schoolmates, AND patriarchal media manipulators.

crackofdoom · 19/04/2025 14:28

snughugs · 19/04/2025 12:11

That’s a good point perhaps young boys are confused by non binary woke stuff and struggle to identify but that doesn’t excuse them not being kind and loving to women and instead seeing them as sex objects.

I think of men I’ve known who are not of good character. Some have had useless Fathers and enabling misogynistic Mothers who fill their son’s head when they’re such a good catch and women are out to trap them. Then the Mother’s wonder why they’re 45 and single and visiting prostitutes.

Also as someone who’s done some online dating it’s seems few are raised to behave like gentlemen. Get doors, turn up early, be polite these are middle aged men. They’ve no zero self respect. Although I accept online dating has a lot of dregs, but some of these men are Fathers!

Having just ended a relationship with a performative door opener due to underlying misogyny, I don't think superficially "behaving like a gentleman" is proof of decency. Arguably the opposite.

sciaticafanatica · 19/04/2025 14:29

It’s a mixture of all social media platforms, Tate, porn and shite parenting .

snughugs · 19/04/2025 15:03

@crackofdoom. Fair Enough. I guess he knew how to behave but couldn’t actually follow it through to in private

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GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/04/2025 15:11

My nephew seems to have been taken on my Andrew Tate and Reform type messaging.

My BIL, his dad is an a fantastic role model.

sciaticafanatica · 19/04/2025 15:15

@GargoylesofBeelzebubhow old is your nephew?

MissyB1 · 19/04/2025 15:34

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/04/2025 15:11

My nephew seems to have been taken on my Andrew Tate and Reform type messaging.

My BIL, his dad is an a fantastic role model.

A fantastic role model in what way though? Parents need to be actively engaged in their dc's day to day lives, it takes time and effort, lots of parents don't make the time or effort.

crumblingschools · 19/04/2025 15:37

Our local secondary schools are having to work with local sports clubs like cricket, rugby, football as some misogynistic behaviour is coming from the coaches etc @snughugs

crumblingschools · 19/04/2025 15:42

@crackofdoom isn't that where Tate can come in, he advocates behaviour like opening doors, not to be polite but because you are a man. If women don't like that then it is a woman who is in the wrong and need to be subservient

MiserableMrsMopp · 19/04/2025 16:34

crumblingschools · 19/04/2025 15:37

Our local secondary schools are having to work with local sports clubs like cricket, rugby, football as some misogynistic behaviour is coming from the coaches etc @snughugs

Exactly. Using 'girls' as an insult. Or 'gay'. 20th century sexist, racist, homophobic insults.

Come on, you're running like a girl!
Stop gossiping ladies!
That's so gay.

All the old tropes.

snughugs · 19/04/2025 17:16

MissyB1 · 19/04/2025 15:34

A fantastic role model in what way though? Parents need to be actively engaged in their dc's day to day lives, it takes time and effort, lots of parents don't make the time or effort.

Agreed. Fathers/Parents need to be taking them to hobbies and engaging with their sons and supporting their education.

I wouldn’t blame Reform and Andrew Tate for non involved parents. That’s just taking a very left wing view. How is your BIL not more an influence than Andrew Tate? I’ve got an 17 year old I can’t say Andrew Tate has ever been an issue. He’s been discussed like “oh well I suppose he’s encouraging gym and chess”, but what a nob. I can imagine if no balanced discussion is going on in the home it can’t be helpful.

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snughugs · 19/04/2025 17:29

crumblingschools · 19/04/2025 15:37

Our local secondary schools are having to work with local sports clubs like cricket, rugby, football as some misogynistic behaviour is coming from the coaches etc @snughugs

Yes I’ve seen that plenty times with my own eyes with male based hobbies and sports and it’s difficult. My son played at National level and being a single parent and only Mother often there. I got treated badly and often bullied. I don’t miss those days one bit, although I’m glad I gave my son the opportunity. Hated it though.

However, I do think boys need competition and exercise and masculine sports are good. You hear more behaviour problems from young men stuck in their rooms doing no exercise, no hobbies and whinging about their lot. That’s what makes you vulnerable to Andrew Tate I suppose.

There’s always going to be some misogyny but it should be challenged and boys (and men) clearly do need some clear evidence guidance on acceptable behaviour towards women. I genuinely don’t see how this bad behaviour has been caused by Andrew Tate. It’s been caused by their role models I believe.

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