Is it really Andrew Tate or do some boys just have terrible role models in the home?

[snughugs]

I’m seeing all this sexism in class stuff on TV just now, they blame Andrew Tate for everything. I bet a lot of these boys have Fathers and male role models who are the type of men we read about on the relationship boards here. You know the guys who want a submissive provider.

You asked what boys were confused about. You asked an extremely simple question that has a simple answer - the answer is: the same as boys have always been confused about - growing up.

The normal confusion of adolescence is a key underlying reason for why young people may be receptive to messages they receive online.

The messages presented to boys and girls are different, both in wider society and online, although linked.

You asked a simple question so you got a straightforward answer, and have repeated the same simple question again I want to know what boys are confused about

That's very enlightening, many thanks.

How are they not the same, other than where biological, reproductive differences mean our bodies and physical experiences differ?

I have certainly never seen any gender differences e.g. in abilities, intellectual ability, tastes, emotional intelligence, etc. between males and females in my lifetime.

Furtivenasturtium - id say that there is such a thing as toxic feminism though ive seen other women say they expect guys to do certain things like diy fix cars etc but we both know that if a guy said that he expected women to stay at home all day provide kids and do house work cook etc that wouldnt be ok ive also had personal experiences of woman who change at the drop of a hat i had one woman who i was freindly with who would hug me when she saw me that went on for a year or two to out of the blue shed stop if i so much as tickled her or patted her on back shed aggressivly tell me to get my hands off her and never touch her shed then go on about how that could be considered sexual harrasment initially i assumed she was joking because she had previusly instigated hugging me but sure enough she then brought me a leaflet about sexual harrasment ive also seen women talking on tv(loose women) where they seriously debated how valentines cards could be considered sexual harrasment it seems to be women think they get to call the shots on how men behave one minute somethings ok the next its sexual harrasment or its considered toxic mascullinity and were supposed to be ok with that its not ok

@masterofdoom What do you think about boys refusing to talk to female teachers and calling girls names?

ive also had personal experiences of woman who change at the drop of a hat i had one woman who i was freindly with who would hug me when she saw me that went on for a year or two to out of the blue shed stop if i so much as tickled her or patted her on back shed aggressivly tell me to get my hands off her and never touch her shed then go on about how that could be considered sexual harrasment initially i assumed she was joking because she had previusly instigated hugging me but sure enough she then brought me a leaflet about sexual harrasment If someone asks another person to stop touching them, it is not ok to carry on. Any person (man or woman) can ask any person (man or woman) to stop doing something even if it has been done for a decade before. This is called bodily autonomy and applies equally to both men and women.

As an aside, tickling someone could definitely be deemed inappropriate unless wanted. Tickling is very personal.

He's a bogeyman.. convenient to blame for all of societies ills, rather than face up to a broken society and failed unfettered liberalism.

@Furtivenasturtiumthe main obvious difference is biologically and hormonally. This gives rise to differences in energy levels, mood and even the way they learn and express themselves. I’m speaking on a general level of course, as we all know there are exceptions.
Denying the differences only leaves the door open to people like Tate to say “yes, you’re right. You’re not like a girl. Listen to me because I recognise this”

Maitri108 - what do you think of famale teachers refusing to talk to a male pupil because hes openly gay happened to me at high school had girls and woman call me stuff too not one sided lets not pretend it is one of those teachers at a parent night actually asked my parents to tell me to leave her room wouldnt speak to me directly then accused me of skipping her class which was never the case to cover her back

verycloakanddaggers - dont initiate bodily contact then for a long period of time then stop it out of the blue and talk about sexual harrasment when the person youve been hugging a year or two pats you on back or tickles you be consistent whats wrong with you

The main damage (i.e. centuries of horrific denial of rights and oppression, killings and rapes) has been caused by focusing on imaginary or cultural differences, pretending they're innate, biological fact, and structuring society and attitudes accordingly, so I think it's very important to teach evidence-based gender and sex issues and be clear on the vast amounts of misinformation. Perhaps starting with teaching boys and girls how to recognise misinformation and pseudoscience, then asking them to look at what is left and how society can ensure that can flourish without harming others.

The thing is the biological and reproductive differences really are at the forefront during the teen years.

Teen bodies (and brains) go through huge, quite rapid changes all whilst they are in school.

I have only been through female puberty, but it did bring with it a lot of female specific issues and a kind of realisation that if babies were to happen, it would be me that was pregnant.

I've watched my sons go through puberty too and that has had its own set of experiences. They go from cute children who aren't stronger and faster than thier female classmate, to rapid growth. Suddenly taller than thier mum's. New found strength. They need to know how to handle that positively and responsibly.

Some kids have awful role models. My 6 year old DS used to love unicorns and rainbows, but now says that they are only for girls and that girls can't do the same things as boys, are weaker etc.

Definitely not come from us, DS had said the boy at school who's been saying it. We know the dad vaguely and he's a twat so it's understandable where the views come from

@FurtivenasturtiumI agree. To combat the misinformation we need to arm our dc with correct information through good role models who recognise the differences.
I’ve often seen the argument for a preference of male firefighters over female firefighters as a validation of how stupid feminism is because there are tonnes of jobs they can’t do as well as a male.
It’s not wrong to recognise that boys and men are physically stronger and do have the advantage in certain situations. It’s not a toxic trait but there’s confusion around it because it can lead to toxic behaviour.

Hi all, first post so please be gentle.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so there were lots of positive role models for young men on our screens. Andy Peters on CBBC, Peter Nutkin, Chris Acadusi, Dayley Thompson etc. The list went on and on and the key to being successful was that they all worked hard and had (from the perspective of a 12 year old boy) a good moral compass. Fast forward to 2025 and we have a fragmented media with no overall control (OFCOM) and we could all start a youtube channel tomorrow and post anything that we want. The only thing that is important is that we get clicks/likes and engagement - therefore the more controversial the content the better.

Access to adult content was controlled and the depiction of sex on screen was generally of the more romantic persuasion, Ghost, Dirty Dancing etc. So the message was clear, work hard and you can be successful, be kind and treat people with respect and others will respect you.

Now we have Andrew T and Lilly P who are dominating the online media space. Our young people see that to be successful you need to be controversial, confrontational and online. You are then validated from people you don't know and more than likely will never meet. If your introduction to sexual relationships is to view degrading and violent porn then is it any wonder that both our young men and girls are finding it hard to navigate the hardest years of their lives? Romance is never talked about, love is not an aspiration anymore for a lot of content creators. As was said previously it is often the swift gratification that people want. Don't wait for it when you can have it now. Our young people, both male and female are watching things that in reality they do not want to be a part of. How many young women are nervous about having a relationship with a partner if they think it will be dominating and possibly degrading?

I think that there are lots of great role models out there, it is just that their voices are not heard above the monetised noise that is pushed out through social media.

Boys and young men need be spoken to, without a doubt but there is a wider question of are we happy to have this unregulated wild west online that we now have feeding our young people whatever the content creators want them to listen to?????

I think that compared to women men are significantly more prone to going 'bad'-meaning that they become arrogant exploitative and domineering. A bad man is likely to be more threatening to others than a bad woman and so people don't stand up to the bad man and he gets out of control.

Also the widespread availability of pornography has had an extremely detrimental effect.
It's difficult to see how these worms will ever go back in the can☹️

Both

I think so many things. Child led learning, lack of discipline, tables that face groups of children rather than the teacher. Child led parenting, extreme gentle parenting (I don’t agree with violence) but again, lack of discipline is not good. Violent and sexualised content which is normalised across society (and can be traced back to pornography). Social media. Tick tock. Too much focus on children so that they are almost little gods in the household.

But the biggest thing (imo) is probably a lack of shared morality and purpose, the demise of religion and meaning. The something bigger than all of us that we share (pride, values, community). Becoming a global world rather than small communities brings a lot of bad (from lack of community to pandemics).

Divides and blame culture, not engaging in conversations but instead wanting to blame and cancel people rather than listen and understand what it is that these people (such as Tate) offer, what they are seeing, and the sense of meaning/ purpose/ place that they offer to young boys and men. Such as the want to aspire to be a big man, successful, capable, admired. Look for the good not the bad and start there. You will get further if you do (for example if you are worried about your own sons).

I am not perfect by any means, I doubt anyone here is. The claim it is bad parenting is wishful thinking in my opinion. It’s much bigger and we all play a part. It’s also not all bad. Although focus on the negatives and that’s all you will see!

Until women can make safe decisions about leaving relationships with men who do not provide positive role-models to their sons and daughters, without making themselves and their children homeless or putting themselves or their children at risk of harm, society will continue to have a massive man-problem.

I think many posters on the relationships board wouldn't even be in their sad or unequal or abusive relationships if leaving was made easy and society recognised that so many women end up choosing 'the devil you know' over family courts, homelessness, poverty and threat of violence -whether financial, emotional or physical.

Give women an 'out' and men will need to change.

Don't confuse my personal views or feelings on this subject with this men/ boys are confused mantra. I don't have the answers as to why that's being perpetuated.

I believe there's a common theme that aligns some of what JPeterson says with some messages that may be perpetuated by Tate and any other influencers online. During my dross watching sessions there are a multitude of podcasters that will appeal to young kids who share a common sentiment, like phrases JP will use. There are loads of them out there on YTube.

So from my limited viewing ( I'm not a TikTok person so unclear what's on there), there is an astonishing number of people on platforms repeating lines that I even see on here from men. A key one being ' boys are confused ' and ' men are confused '.

I'm probably going slightly off tangent trying to understand exactly what this means, what are you really saying and is there any truth in that? Then - how is that influencing boys. I'm quite certain it is on some level.

I'm not sure how much I buy the role model narrative. It's important in some aspects that everyone has good role models, but there are plenty to be found. I'm not my daughter's sole role model just because I'm the same sex as her so I'm not sure why we perpetuate the idea to that there's something so magically different about boys that their role model has to be male. Is the picking up of misogynistic, sexist behaviour also just perpetuated as a thing boys do because they're boys? Either way - there are still plenty of good role models around, so I don't think it's that.

Being on MN has both educated and horrified me.
I read posts that describe situations so hideous, I sometimes question if they're real. And then it unfolds and I see it is real. Women stuck in situations so hideous, with children and are trapped financially or because the abusive guy is going to torture them and the kids psychologically probably with full support of any court system if they leave.

And I sit here thinking thank god I'm single ( by choice), self sufficient and not dependant financially. And I know that it's maligning an entire sex but until every guy acknowledges how disproportionately unfair and scary it is for women, it's difficult to even say ' not all men are like this'. Instead, I genuinely think, well, who isn't because I don't ever hear or see men acknowledge how terrifying life is for so many women ffs.

@Pleaseshutthefuckup
"...until every guy acknowledges how disproportionately unfair and scary it is for women, it's difficult to even say ' not all men are like this'. Instead, I genuinely think, well, who isn't because I don't ever hear or see men acknowledge how terrifying life is for so many women ffs."

This insight wins the day. This is a man problem and men need to step up to sort men out and not leave women and children to bear the brunt of it. I have some fantastic men in my acquaintance and have also met and been in relationship with some very frightening men. Men as a sex class need to divest of aspects and expressions of masculinity which are inherently detrimental and damaging to both themselves and to women and children. Porn would be an excellent place to start, as would routinely calling out casual misogyny in all contexts.

@Kuchakmoush Great first post, welcome 🙂