Is it really Andrew Tate or do some boys just have terrible role models in the home?

[snughugs]

I’m seeing all this sexism in class stuff on TV just now, they blame Andrew Tate for everything. I bet a lot of these boys have Fathers and male role models who are the type of men we read about on the relationship boards here. You know the guys who want a submissive provider.

An engineer is not caring for people in A&E, end of life care or in ICU. They tend to work 9-5 and start on between £30,000 to£37,000.

Nursing can be a very demanding stressful job with a lot of responsory and pressure but so can being an engineer.

However there are plenty of nurses working 9-5 in pretty low stress / risk roles like practice nurse, school nurse, health visitors, secual health etcv etc.

Some engineers work 9-5, lots are on shifts, on call, some work locally, lots have to travel nationally and internationally.

Nurses start a s a band 5 which has a pay scale of £29,969 to £36,483 per year.

Good on them if they can get £37K a year as a graduate engineer, but £30K is more realistic as a top line.

The job of an engineer is nothing whatsoever like a nurse. Designing a car or bridge is not the equivalent to caring for a human being.

Their jobs are completely different and I have no idea why you chose it.

You asked for a similar level of pay and responsibility - I've given you this.

Lots of nurses have critical roles but so do lots of engineers.

You maybe just aren't really aware of what a professional engineer does.

I'm perfectly aware of what an engineer does and it's multi faceted.

Can you name a male role which involves the same level of work, training and qualifications that pays similar to a nurse please?

Engineers don't do anything similar to anyone in the medical profession. They're not dealing with the health of human beings.

The reason you chose an engineer is because they're degree qualified.

"We notice mess, men don't.its just one of those differences between men and women."

This is a sexist generalisation. I certainly have no problems noticing the mess my wife makes....

You're original question was: "Could you give an example of a male role that pays the same as a nurse given the hours, qualifications and training?".

Which I've done, so you moved the goalposts saying nurses work shifts and have responsibility. I've explained lot of engineers work shifts and have responsible high criticality roles.

So now you've moved the goalposts to it having to include health for some reason?

You'd be better arguing male nurses with the same level of pay and experience got paid more than female ones. But they don't?

I haven't moved the goalposts. I didn't ask you to come up with a random job that has a degree.

I asked you to come up with a traditional male profession that has an equivalent role and pay. You can't.

No you didn't I've literally stated your question. hours, qualifications and training. All are similar between engineers and nurses.

If that's the case and nursing is paid as well as engineering, why do you think we have a nursing crisis?

I've no idea, I don't work in healthcare. Anecdotally two friends have recently complained they cant get bank shifts as our local trust is fully staffed.

Why are there labour shortages in transport, manufacturing, IT and construction?

I don't work in healthcare either but I read available information about a range of issues. It's very difficult to retain nurses because of the high pressured nature of the job, long working hours, understaffing and pay. Its not unheard of for nurses to go to food banks.

I don't believe we have the same problem with engineers. Strange given the uncannily similar pay and conditions.

You realise the nurse is probably married to an engineer?

It's not a men vs women thing.

It's a man Vs woman thing when traditional female roles are underpaid and underappreciated.

On pay vs gender - I've provided lots of explanation and evidence why men on average earn more, if you want to stick with your beliefs and ignore facts I can't do much about that.

On appreciation vs gender - Please provide evidence of this.

You've provided opinions. Carers, mothers, nursery workers, nurses, teachers are unappreciated and badly paid professions.

I've provided studies and references, here are more:
https://ideas.repec.org/p/zbw/glodps/902r.html
https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/236201/1/GLO-DP-0902.pdf
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0907352106
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w28820/w28820.pdf
Any further claims are just trolling.

Please provide objective evidence requested in last post on under appreciation.

Providing information on something as subjective as personality traits isn't proof that men deserve to be paid more for the same job than women.

What evidence do you want that the previously stated roles are unappreciated given that wages are easily found online?

"Carers, mothers, nursery workers, nurses, teachers are unappreciated and badly paid professions."

To be fair most of these are public service / benefit funded and the first to be squeezed when the government tightens it's belt. Even doctors are badly paid these days....

Thankyou , I’m glad someone gets where I’m coming from, many just shut down refusing to try and understand
nothing will change if we don’t

The average man earns more than the average woman because of all the stuff I've carefully explained above.

Men in the same role, with the same experience, working the same hours, having the same qualifications on average earns 1-2% more than a woman, this small difference is down to men being more assertive when it comes to pay rises and extra pay for extra duties.

This isn't my opinion, this is decades of people researching this stuff and finding facts.

You're a very good boy laidbackluke. Very very good. You're doing a great job of mansplaining, and we all appreciate it. Gold star for you!

Feeling better now?

https://www.ciphr.com/infographics/gender-pay-gap-statistics-2024

Key findings:

Over three-quarters (76%) of all occupations / job roles in the UK have gender pay gaps in favour of men
Most (85%) occupations that employ 50,000 full-time workers or more in the UK have gender pay gaps in favour of men
Two-thirds (66%) of female-dominated occupations – where 60% or more of the jobs (full- and part-time) are filled by women – have gender pay gaps in favour of men
Almost all (89%) industries in the UK have gender pay gaps in favour of men.

Based on Ciphr's analysis, most (85%) occupations that employ 50,000 full-time workers or more in the UK have gender pay gaps in favour of men. Only 3% of such job roles have no reported pay gaps, and around one in eight (12%) pay women more.

Occupations with the largest workforces appear the most likely to have a gender pay gap. According to the latest data, 95% of jobs with over 200,000 full-time employees in the UK have a gender pay gap in favour of men. This includes popular roles such as IT manager, registered nurse, admin assistant, LGV driver, secondary school teacher, retail assistant, payroll manager, warehouse operative, marketing director, and financial manager.

Across all occupations, the average median gender pay gap for full-time workers in the UK in 2024 is 7% in favour of men. This means that the gender pay gap has decreased slightly (by 0.5%) for full-time workers over the last year (it was 7.5% in 2023). But women’s hourly pay still lags behind men’s hourly pay in many occupations.

The UK’s mean gender pay gap for full-time employees is 11.3% in favour of men.

Women working full-time in the private sector must also contend with a bigger pay gap than those in the public sector (12.5% vs 10%).

For all workers (full- and part-time), the UK’s median gender pay gap in 2024 is 13.1% in favour of men (down 1.1% from 14.2% in 2023). So, women in the UK only earn 87 pence, on average, for every pound men earn.

A man and woman with the same qualifications, same experience and same competence start with the same company in the same role at the same location.

The woman is contracted for 40 hours a week and gets paid £40Kpa.
The man is contracted for 30 hours a week and gets paid £30Kpa.

Is this unfair?