Is it really Andrew Tate or do some boys just have terrible role models in the home?

[snughugs]

I’m seeing all this sexism in class stuff on TV just now, they blame Andrew Tate for everything. I bet a lot of these boys have Fathers and male role models who are the type of men we read about on the relationship boards here. You know the guys who want a submissive provider.

I've already read your post. I don't agree with what you said and am asking you to clarify.

I know we have all seen the working class family in Adolescence, but it’s actually worse in a lot of private schools because you add in entitlement too. The fathers of those boys are a law unto themselves.

aylis

my point was that women are capable of rape I gave an example of that so the way the defination of rape is worded in law its made to seem that only men are able to rape and thats wrong rape is forcing somebody to have sex against theyre will so women are capable of that as well as men

aylis

any kind of relationship should be mutual not one gender should be able to call the shots and the other is expected to go along with what the other decides god knows how often growing up i heard women take the glory for mens success claiming that behind every mans success theres a woman and that the woman really wore the pants in the relationship and then women would brag about taking theyre male partner to the cleaners if theyre relationship didnt work out yet i see women online complain if men want a share of theyre female partners wealth if they seperate i saw one young woman from america complain online that she got married it didnt work out and how she was going to fight her husband tooth and nail to keep the house for herself i reminded her that in the eyes of the law that was marital home and the husband had as much right to a share of it as she had theres definatly double standards in relationships and society with the female gender and if you call women out for that your a jerk or you havent a clue what your talking about

I never understand while when Rape, Domestic Violence or financial abuse is discussed it’s always “oh women are just as bad”. I don’t believe they are plenty men don’t get married and have kids and the women is strung along left with nothing, it’s doesn’t happen as much with men, more women die at the hands of men and legally you need a penis to rape.

I do think it’s true now people have left religion there’s no rules left and men with God complex are calling the shots.

I briefly watched a show the other night about Andrew Tates life. His Father who’s was International Master (one below a Grandmaster). He was diagnosed to Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Andrew Tate’s chess rating isn’t as wonderful as you’d think i looked it up it’s about FIDE 1600 (basically a good club player). Anyway as my own son played Chess at a high level I can tell you they are the most toxic, misogynistic, horrible people you’ll ever encounter (with define exceptions) but on the whole. Anyway I’m wondering is there a chance Andrew Tate is autistic due to him lacking empathy, seeing people as objects, even the way he talks is pretty strange. May be some with better knowledge could give some insight.

I do think it’s true now people have left religion there’s no rules left and men with God complex are calling the shots
I have long suspected that part of the reason humanity needs gods/religion is that without these things men will appoint themselves as gods. Which takes us into 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely' territory.

I encountered misogyny and sexualised bullying in school - well before Andrew Tate was famous. I think the media gives him an outsized importance. It's easier to ascribe blame to one individual rather than examine the wider culture that has always perpetuated misogyny. Tate is influential because he has a receptive audience who already share his views.

snughugs

I never said women were just as bad as men when it comes to rape but women do rape and its not recodnised as rape its seen as sexual assualt which is seen as less of a crime and carries less of a sentence thats wrong ive seen posts on here when i brought up that women rape saying thats impossible because of the legal defination of rape to me that needs to be changed so that women can be tried and convicted of rape when they comit it and get the same sentence a man would get if he were to comit rape

In the UK 85% of primary teachers are female, 65% of secondary teachers are female, 85% of lone parent families are headed by women - its fair to say women are the main role models in many young men's lives.

If we stop branding them as "incells", stop pretending things like adolescence are in any way factual, allow boys to be boys and family court recognises the importance of the father in children's lives things may improve.

@Laidbacklukeplease clarify what you mean by 'let boys be boys'

Schools and society have banned boys from rough play which is known to be linked to neurological and emotional growth.

Rough play helps boys learn how to manage emotions and aggression.

The majority of fathers who have separated from the mother of their children don't bother going to court to pursue contact arrangements. It doesn't matter what a court might say if you don't apply to court in the first place.

Adolescence itself is, of course, a piece of fiction. But to pretend that there aren't those kinds of attitudes out there among a minority of boys and men is stunningly blinkered.

A lot of boys don't have any male role models it's why they turn to Andrew Tate and others like him in the first place

Don't think there is a problem with schools banning it, can so easily get out of hand.

So many parents are unable to say 'no' to their children so will be interesting to see if this research is still valid in a few years time, as rough play still needs to be managed So a dad rough housing with their child is good but they need to know when to call time if necessary.

Also violent young men have always been a problem, so when rough play was more prominent did it actually work? Also children are surrounded by violence in a way they never were in the past eg social media, gaming, films etc so much more graphic and realistic, violent porn (25% of Primary aged children have watched porn)

Schools have huge issue with misogyny, rough play isn't going to stop that.

Sigh... I get sick of hearing this sort of thing. I raised 3 emotionally intelligent, kind and calm boys without allowing them to
•go around shoving other kids
•wrestling other kids to the ground
•randomly grabbing hold of other kids
•barging their way into, or in front of, other kids
All of which seem to constitute this supposedly "essential" rough play 🙄

It's called rape either way here in Australia the laws were changed recently so that women would get the same charge and not the lesser charge

What's rough play?

@Laidbacklukecare to provide a shred of evidence that boys in particular 'need' rough play (as below, what that exactly is to be confirmed).

There's next to no difference in boys and girls before puberty.

Let boys be boys is an excuse for inexcusable behaviour.

Can you share something to back up that view please?

There's lots of papers on it some by Dr Stewart Brown, here's a more accessible article he's written about it.

wunderled.com/blog/rough-and-tumble-play-2/

Dunno but my son does Boxing and they get a massive dopamine hit from sparring. Very happy and buzzing afterwards. So may be related, although also had injuries. Men often hug each other after Boxing too, so it’s a lot of physical contact. I think a lot of violent boys use knifes or beat women rather than actually honing a skill.

I just wanted to know what the poster meant. Obviously children, boys and girls, get a lot out of being active. It's great for building confidence, strength, team play and like you say dopamine.

Please, @Laidbacklukereread my question, it was about boys specifically.

Essentially what was normal for young boys 50 years ago, playing bulldog in the playground, pushing and shoving, the normal scrapes boys used to get in to.

There are studies which link fathers play fighting with sons that show boys where the father is dominant in the situation boys are less aggressive as they get older.

Male male social interactions are governed by the underlying threat of physical force, they always have been and always will be.

I've never really read or considered much about it in girls as I don't have daughters. Here are a few reverences, there's plenty if you simply google.

1. Pellegrini, A. D. (1995) – “Boys’ Rough-and-Tumble Play, Social Competence, and Group Dynamics”
📚 Source: Early Childhood Research Quarterly

• Overview: Studied preschool boys during free play sessions and found that those who engaged more in RTP were rated by teachers as more socially competent.
• Key Finding: RTP helped boys learn social boundaries, negotiate roles, and practice self-regulation, particularly in group settings.
• Why it matters: The study challenged the view that RTP leads to aggression and instead showed it supports positive peer interaction.

2. Paquette, D. (2004) – “Theorizing the Father-Child Relationship: Mechanisms and Developmental Outcomes” 📚 Source: Human Development

• Overview: Explores the role of fathers in children's development, emphasizing how fathers often engage in “activation relationship” behaviors like rough-and-tumble play.
• Key Finding: RTP helps children—especially boys—develop risk assessment, emotional regulation, and exploratory behavior.
• Why it matters: Highlights how RTP, particularly with male caregivers, prepares boys for real-world challenges and social navigation.

3. Panksepp, J. (2003) – “Can Play Diminish ADHD and Facilitate the Construction of the Social Brain?” 📚 Source: Journal of the Canadian Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry

• Overview: Dr. Jaak Panksepp studied rats and children to examine how play deprivation affects social brain development.
• Key Finding: Depriving young mammals (including children) of play, especially RTP, impairs social development and may exacerbate attention and behavioral problems.
• Why it matters: Suggests play, especially rough play, may help mitigate symptoms of ADHD and build prosocial neural pathways.