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Feminism: chat

Disown by mum friends who I have known for 20 years due to my gender critical view.

463 replies

rouxelitee · 04/11/2024 16:29

I am a bit sad today because I have been disowned by my group of friends who are mothers. I have known them since college. All of us have children, mine is a toddler.

One of them is a paediatrician. Let's call her JY. She supports the trans-movement for children. Recently she has shared an article with the whatsapp chat group on sexual and relationship saying that this should be how children are parented. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/sex-relationships/
I didn't agree with the gender and identity section and I called it out. I said that affirming children in this matter will make things worst. The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

Fast forward to today, my partner and I are have been researching on local schools and their policies on the same matter, preparing ourselves for when our child is of school age. We found out that this school in Leicester has the following policy.

7.3 In accordance with the Equality Act 2010 we will not inform a parent or carer about a student being Trans or gender questioning.
7.4 Confidential information will not be shared with the parents and carers without a student’s permission, unless there are safeguarding reasons for doing so.
_
https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

I felt that this is such a massive red flag, that I need to warn all my friends to look into their school policies.

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

They will possibly not talk to me ever again. I am very sad and I feel very alone in this matter, and that my partner and I and alone in this battle alone trying to protect our child from the state, the school and dangerous ideology.

I guess I just want to not feel like a crazy person shouting on top of my lungs "please look into this, this is bad".

Thanks,
roux

https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

OP posts:
Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:08

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:02

No, nothing is stopping me from calling myself a woman.

But what is the point in calling myself a woman if the word no longer has any meaning?

Words are supposed to describe things. My intention in calling myself a woman is to describe myself as an adult female human. Female, not male. If the word "women" now includes male people, what is it describing? And what am I now inadvertently calling myself when I refer to myself as a woman? If "woman" is now supposed to be an identity, I need to understand what that identity is before I go round calling myself that.

So what the fuck is it?

If you can't explain what makes a trans woman a woman then I am not going to accept that they are women or refer to them as women, and it's as simple as that. I will continue to use the word "woman" to mean adult female human, and "man" to mean adult male human, which means the word "men" is clearly inclusive of trans women.

Edited

But what is the point in calling myself a woman if the word no longer has any meaning?

it does have meaning. Trans women are really not a threat to that meaning- they are a small minority of people. Your identity as a woman is well known, recognised and understood.
The idea that your identity is under threat because of trans people is a fantasy / fear / projection- fuelled by a fear and lack of understanding of a radical type of difference. It’s a tale as old as time. Thats really all it is.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:09

You can't be a trans woman without being a man. I mean that's the only requirement 😂

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:13

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:08

But what is the point in calling myself a woman if the word no longer has any meaning?

it does have meaning. Trans women are really not a threat to that meaning- they are a small minority of people. Your identity as a woman is well known, recognised and understood.
The idea that your identity is under threat because of trans people is a fantasy / fear / projection- fuelled by a fear and lack of understanding of a radical type of difference. It’s a tale as old as time. Thats really all it is.

Are you serious?

The meaning of the word "woman" is "adult female human".

If you change that definition to include some male people then you are no longer describing anything at all.

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:20

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:13

Are you serious?

The meaning of the word "woman" is "adult female human".

If you change that definition to include some male people then you are no longer describing anything at all.

Yes I’m serious. Everybody knows who you are; they know you are a woman and they know what that means.

Trans women are not a threat to your identity your identity will not dissolve into nothingness if we recognise, accept and include trans women.

The idea that it will , is nothing more than a projection/ fantasy / phobia on your part, fuelled by fear of a radical form of difference that you don’t understand- the existence of trans people.

Trans people are a very small minority of people. They are not an existential threat to your personhood.
They just want to get on in the world and live their lives in a way that is authentic and tolerable for them in dignity and peace. They don’t want to make any comment about who you are, they just want you to let them be who they are. It’s a simple as that.

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:23

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:09

You can't be a trans woman without being a man. I mean that's the only requirement 😂

This is another completely offensive statement, if anyone is keeping score.

It also makes no sense. If being a man is the only requirement for being a trans woman, do you think that all men are trans women? Or are you saying that there is no such thing as a trans woman?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:26

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:23

This is another completely offensive statement, if anyone is keeping score.

It also makes no sense. If being a man is the only requirement for being a trans woman, do you think that all men are trans women? Or are you saying that there is no such thing as a trans woman?

Facts aren’t offensive. Trans women are men. Can women be trans women? All men aren’t trans women. Obviously. I hope this helps you. Can you answer the other questions now?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:27

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:20

Yes I’m serious. Everybody knows who you are; they know you are a woman and they know what that means.

Trans women are not a threat to your identity your identity will not dissolve into nothingness if we recognise, accept and include trans women.

The idea that it will , is nothing more than a projection/ fantasy / phobia on your part, fuelled by fear of a radical form of difference that you don’t understand- the existence of trans people.

Trans people are a very small minority of people. They are not an existential threat to your personhood.
They just want to get on in the world and live their lives in a way that is authentic and tolerable for them in dignity and peace. They don’t want to make any comment about who you are, they just want you to let them be who they are. It’s a simple as that.

They know that I'm a woman because I'm female. Just like they know that a trans woman is not a woman because trans women are male, even if they are afraid to say so in this brave new rainbow coloured world.

The purpose of the words "women" and "men" is to distinguish between female people and male people.

When we use the word "women", we are talking about things which, by definition, do not concern male people. It's as much about who it excludes as who it includes. Women's toilets are supposed to be toilets in which no adult males are present. Women's sports are supposed to be events in which no male athletes may compete. Women's shelters are supposed to be safe female only spaces for women who have suffered male violence and are afraid of males.

Trans women know that they cannot actually become women simply because they say so.

So what is the point in saying so?

If, according to this new definition, there is not one single thing that all women have in common, what is the point of this category?

As far as I can see, the only point is to stop us from excluding male people from things that are supposed to exclude them. The sign on the toilet door saying "women" is not a deterrent to a male person who has redefined the word "women" to include himself. But the women who need that space can get stuffed, obviously. They're only women, which means they don't matter.

24hoursfromtulsa · 23/11/2024 21:27

FFS!

No one thinks that all men are TW.

But ALL so-called ‘transwomen’ are men - ONLY men can be TW

Call women 'transphobic' all you like, but these men will never be women!

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:28

There are plenty of trans women who know and accept they are male @Tandora, you do realise this?

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:28

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:26

Facts aren’t offensive. Trans women are men. Can women be trans women? All men aren’t trans women. Obviously. I hope this helps you. Can you answer the other questions now?

I hope this helps you.

well no, not really. It makes no sense; especially since you said that “being a man” is the “only requirement” for being a trans woman.

Anyway

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:32

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:28

I hope this helps you.

well no, not really. It makes no sense; especially since you said that “being a man” is the “only requirement” for being a trans woman.

Anyway

A trans woman is a male person who wishes to identify as (but can never be) a female person.

"Man" means male person.

Not all male people are trans women. But all trans women are male people.

Trans women have more in common with men than they do with women.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:33

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:28

I hope this helps you.

well no, not really. It makes no sense; especially since you said that “being a man” is the “only requirement” for being a trans woman.

Anyway

Well it is. If it wasn’t then surely anyone could be a trans woman then? You have to be a biological male in order to be a trans woman.

That doesn’t mean every man is trans as every man doesn’t feel like they are really
a woman, whatever that means as - in no shock to anybody - you haven’t been able to describe what that means.

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:35

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:32

A trans woman is a male person who wishes to identify as (but can never be) a female person.

"Man" means male person.

Not all male people are trans women. But all trans women are male people.

Trans women have more in common with men than they do with women.

But if you are saying that being a man is the “only” requirement for being a trans woman, what in your view is the difference between a man and a trans woman?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:36

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:35

But if you are saying that being a man is the “only” requirement for being a trans woman, what in your view is the difference between a man and a trans woman?

Edited

Costume.

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:40

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:36

Costume.

completely ignorant and offensive to trans people. How many posts is that now?

Do you really believe that that is how superficial being trans is? It’s just a “costume” that any man can put on or take off?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:44

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:35

But if you are saying that being a man is the “only” requirement for being a trans woman, what in your view is the difference between a man and a trans woman?

Edited

A trans woman says they are a woman.

That's the only difference.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:45

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:40

completely ignorant and offensive to trans people. How many posts is that now?

Do you really believe that that is how superficial being trans is? It’s just a “costume” that any man can put on or take off?

Edited

The ‘that’s offensive’ doesn’t land anymore. It’s meaningless when you use it.

I believe there are some people that are suffering from a dysphoria, they think they are something they aren’t. But of course it’s costume.

Why do trans women present themselves in ways that they associate with stereotypical feminine dress? Dresses, make up, skirts, bras, long hair? I don’t wear dresses or skirts, what does that make me? I’ll tell you as you’re struggling a bit, a woman, an adult human female, no matter how I dress. Actual women don’t have to explain how they are a woman.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:46

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:40

completely ignorant and offensive to trans people. How many posts is that now?

Do you really believe that that is how superficial being trans is? It’s just a “costume” that any man can put on or take off?

Edited

So can biological women be trans women then?

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:46

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:45

The ‘that’s offensive’ doesn’t land anymore. It’s meaningless when you use it.

I believe there are some people that are suffering from a dysphoria, they think they are something they aren’t. But of course it’s costume.

Why do trans women present themselves in ways that they associate with stereotypical feminine dress? Dresses, make up, skirts, bras, long hair? I don’t wear dresses or skirts, what does that make me? I’ll tell you as you’re struggling a bit, a woman, an adult human female, no matter how I dress. Actual women don’t have to explain how they are a woman.

I believe there are some people that are suffering from a dysphoria

is dysphoria a costume to you?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:46

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:40

completely ignorant and offensive to trans people. How many posts is that now?

Do you really believe that that is how superficial being trans is? It’s just a “costume” that any man can put on or take off?

Edited

Here's a question for you. If it's not just a costume that people can choose to wear or not wear, where are all the trans women in Afghanistan?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:47

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:46

I believe there are some people that are suffering from a dysphoria

is dysphoria a costume to you?

Dysphoria is a very serious affliction.

However.

  1. Not all trans people have dysphoria.
  2. How is a male person with dysphoria the same as a female person without dysphoria?
Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:47

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:46

Here's a question for you. If it's not just a costume that people can choose to wear or not wear, where are all the trans women in Afghanistan?

There are absolutely trans women in Afghanistan.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 23/11/2024 21:48

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:46

I believe there are some people that are suffering from a dysphoria

is dysphoria a costume to you?

In a way, yes. Would you affirm an anorexic as fat?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:51

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:47

There are absolutely trans women in Afghanistan.

Are they "out"?

Tandora · 23/11/2024 21:51

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/11/2024 21:47

Dysphoria is a very serious affliction.

However.

  1. Not all trans people have dysphoria.
  2. How is a male person with dysphoria the same as a female person without dysphoria?

Dysphoria is a very serious affliction
Not all trans people have dysphoria

these are both correct statements. Dysphoria is a very serious affliction which is typically triggered when trans people are unable to express / be recognised within their gender.

Here we can clearly see that being trans is nothing like “a costume” but a serious and core part of someone’s identity.

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