Disown by mum friends who I have known for 20 years due to my gender critical view.

[rouxelitee]

I am a bit sad today because I have been disowned by my group of friends who are mothers. I have known them since college. All of us have children, mine is a toddler.

One of them is a paediatrician. Let's call her JY. She supports the trans-movement for children. Recently she has shared an article with the whatsapp chat group on sexual and relationship saying that this should be how children are parented. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/sex-relationships/
I didn't agree with the gender and identity section and I called it out. I said that affirming children in this matter will make things worst. The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

Fast forward to today, my partner and I are have been researching on local schools and their policies on the same matter, preparing ourselves for when our child is of school age. We found out that this school in Leicester has the following policy.

7.3 In accordance with the Equality Act 2010 we will not inform a parent or carer about a student being Trans or gender questioning.
7.4 Confidential information will not be shared with the parents and carers without a student’s permission, unless there are safeguarding reasons for doing so.
_
https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

I felt that this is such a massive red flag, that I need to warn all my friends to look into their school policies.

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

They will possibly not talk to me ever again. I am very sad and I feel very alone in this matter, and that my partner and I and alone in this battle alone trying to protect our child from the state, the school and dangerous ideology.

I guess I just want to not feel like a crazy person shouting on top of my lungs "please look into this, this is bad".

Thanks,
roux

Sure, you people like to think yourselves experts in telling other people who they are.

Feminism is about equal rights for FEMALE PEOPLE. It is rooted in the understanding that female people have been oppressed by male people since the beginning of civilisation and that we still have not achieved full equality.

Feminism recognises gender as inherently harmful: stereotypes about how women should look and feel and behave which affect the way we are perceived in society and hold us back from achieving our full potential and getting the equality we deserve.

Anyone who wants to define women according to gender rather than according to sex (sex being the basis on which we have been historically oppressed) is the opposite of a feminist.

Anyone who thinks the rights of women with penises trump the rights of women without penises is the opposite of a feminist.

And the single sex spaces and sports argument is one in which there cannot be two winners. Trans women want to be with the women. The women want their own spaces. They cannot both win. If you choose the side of the trans women in that argument, you are favouring male people over female people, which is the literal opposite of feminism.

I'm not in the business of telling people who they are. Who they are is up to them. But sometimes it's important to be clear about what they are. Particularly if they are claiming to be something they are not, for example, claiming to be a woman when they are male, or claiming to be a feminist when they continually prioritise male people over female people.

If I said I was Black, or a doctor, or gifted with the power to cure your cancer if you agree to pay me a million quid, you would be well within your rights to contradict me.

Feminism recognises gender as inherently harmful
no , there are multiple and much more complex perspectives on gender than this within feminism.

Anyone who thinks the rights of women with penises trump the rights of women without penises is the opposite of a feminist.

No one thinks this: this is entirely your own fantasy/ construction/ projection,

Spot on.

But @Tandora you come on a lot of these threads.

Do present your reasoned arguments. We are yet to see any. Prove us wrong.

We are yet to see any.

and this is exactly why I won’t be pandering to your goading today. Absolute waste of time and effort.

Tandora, if you think there is a definition of "gender" which is not inherently harmful then please do share it with the class.

And lots of people think that. Everyone who thinks trans women should be competing in women's sports thinks that (including you, by your own admission). Everyone who thinks all women's rape crisis groups should be inclusive of anyone who "identifies as a woman" thinks that. Everyone who thinks male criminals who "identify as women" should be housed in women's prisons thinks that. Because in all these situations, female people are being harmed for the benefit of male people, and these people who identify as feminists couldn't give a fuck.

You haven't answered these very simple questions on any of the numerous other threads I've seen you posting on either.

It's almost as if you don't have a good answer.

Although quite old now; this paper is a classic favourite of mine

https://archive.ids.ac.uk/bridge/bridge-publications/reports/document/A24760.html

You haven't answered these very simple questions on any of the numerous other threads I've seen you posting on either

I’ve engaged at length and sincerely on many many threads. Offering a lot of explanations and definitions. I don’t know at what point you personally joined the conversation. Perhaps it was after I already gave up,

I can't open the actual paper, but the summary is not promising.

Sex and gender are complicated. But enough about gender, here, read a paragraph about how sex isn't binary or immutable and if you think it is you're an idiot.

I've been here for years and you've been like this the whole time.

Which rather begs the question, why keep posting for a good five years after you decided that engaging with feminists in good faith was a waste of your time?

if you think it is you're an idiot.

productive? Insightful?

But @Tandora if it's such a waste of time why comment at all? Surely you're not the goady one?

But it is nonetheless appreciated because the more you avoid the arguments the more the light shines in.

What would be productive and insightful is a definition of gender.

I understand that that paper acknowledges that it is socially constructed.

So how the fuck is it relevant to sport, which is played with our sexed bodies, not our pink and sparkly womanly genders, and which at an international level is played between people from a wide range of different cultures which do not all have the same understanding of "gender"?

Why do you think eligibility for competing in women's sport should be on the basis of completely subjective criteria? That's insane. And anti-feminist.

I come onto some threads and offer contributions where I think i have something helpful to say: but i know very well now that when certain people me certain “questions” - typically around definitions etc, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from sincerely trying to answer them, because all they are looking for is an opportunity to argue / ridicule, etc. there’s absolutely no response I could give that would bridge any kind of understanding.

Tandora, if you're going to go round calling people horrible and bigoted for not sharing your beliefs about gender, you can't then whine about people asking you to explain what it is you believe and why.

If you could explain it, perhaps some of us would decide you are right and change sides. Which is something you claimed to be hoping for earlier in this thread. Surely you can see that no one is going to change their minds and agree with you if you can't even explain what it is you think they should be agreeing with.

For instance, I came into this thread to share with the OP that I have gender critical friends who I strongly disagree woth, and we both think the other is so wrong that really the only way to maintain the friendship is not to discuss it.

Then people started demanding I answer their nonsense straw man hypotheticals (as per the usual).

If you could explain it, perhaps some of us would decide you are right and change sides.

that’s what I used to think: I no longer believe that. There’s nothing I can say on mumsnet that would change your side.

I think we can agree on that one.

But it's not because you have an incredibly compelling argument that you simply think it is a waste of time sharing with us.

It's because you've got no argument whatsoever.

Believing in gender woo is completely incompatible with feminism, which is why you aren't gaining any support expressing these views on a feminist board.

I understand that these are your beliefs and that nothing I can say will change them.

That is a very terrible truth, but it is what it is.

You said their views - I.e knowing biological fact- were abhorrent. That led to the questions you don’t appear to be able to answer. Not straw man hypotheticals. It’s your beliefs and explanation of what is gender, how humans can change sex and why men with special feelings trump women that you don’t appear to be able to explain or defend. You’ve created this for yourself.

Also… “gender woo”?

Their views are abhorrent and I think it’s important to state that truth for what it is. Someone asked me why and I said why.

Believing in gender woo is completely incompatible with feminism, which is why you aren't gaining any support expressing these views on a feminist board.

Yep, and it’s why Tandora gets their arse handed to them every time they pop up defending men in women’s spaces and sports and called everyone transphobic if you disagree. I think by now they have realised they have no argument (which makes any sense).