Disown by mum friends who I have known for 20 years due to my gender critical view.

[rouxelitee]

I am a bit sad today because I have been disowned by my group of friends who are mothers. I have known them since college. All of us have children, mine is a toddler.

One of them is a paediatrician. Let's call her JY. She supports the trans-movement for children. Recently she has shared an article with the whatsapp chat group on sexual and relationship saying that this should be how children are parented. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/sex-relationships/
I didn't agree with the gender and identity section and I called it out. I said that affirming children in this matter will make things worst. The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

Fast forward to today, my partner and I are have been researching on local schools and their policies on the same matter, preparing ourselves for when our child is of school age. We found out that this school in Leicester has the following policy.

7.3 In accordance with the Equality Act 2010 we will not inform a parent or carer about a student being Trans or gender questioning.
7.4 Confidential information will not be shared with the parents and carers without a student’s permission, unless there are safeguarding reasons for doing so.
_
https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

I felt that this is such a massive red flag, that I need to warn all my friends to look into their school policies.

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

They will possibly not talk to me ever again. I am very sad and I feel very alone in this matter, and that my partner and I and alone in this battle alone trying to protect our child from the state, the school and dangerous ideology.

I guess I just want to not feel like a crazy person shouting on top of my lungs "please look into this, this is bad".

Thanks,
roux

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

oh don’t be such a drama queen

they don’t want to engage on this issue

and you are throwing around “they have disowned me” 🙄

your child is a toddler

and you’re looking up possible colleges for their views on the trans issue?

your child wouldn’t be attending for 10 years

That sounds very hurtful OP, and I share your concerns. However, it's a contentious topic so I would be a bit more careful about who you share your views with.

I'm sure if they truly value your friendship, they will continue talking to you. You might find the Safe Schools Alliance informative.

Thank you for this.

Very sorry OP.💐 I believe you when you say some or even all of them may not talk to you again. It's painful, but I have to say many women will do anything to be accepted, taking the middle road all the time, to their own detriment. They probably would engage more with a man putting forth your views than they will a woman.

I shut up about it now, unless I know the person is tolerant to alternative points of view.

These aren't real friends. It also smacks of the classic school-ground type, mean girl ostracism flex.

Don't go begging to any of them for friendship after this. Cultivate friends that will like you even if you disagree with them.

Its common to start looking early for schools and researching them so you know how best to proceed to get places in the ones you're interested in. People move houses before their children are literally born, to get closer to a school they've researched beforehand. If the Primary feeds into a very good secondary, you are going to look it up. I started researching schools when my first son was 2.

Perhaps she thinks you are goading her on this subject as its already been raised and you have differing views, and she's decided she doesn't wish to engage further on this topic.

Have they left the WhatsApp group or just stopped this discussed (or which platform the discussion occurred on).

I think its a bit dramatic saying you and your partner "are all alone in this battle..."

and throw in the Op is reaching the trans policy of a secondary school when her toddler child won’t even be going there for another decade

Well you e made your views clear and they have done the same. It’s clearly a line that they won’t cross in terms of friendship and that needs to be respected. My views align with your friends. I think it would impact my friendship with people if their views were vastly differing.

A lot will change and I wouldn’t concern yourself with this now. I will help you with your research. You’re never going to send your dc New College. Do you have to live in the city? The best state school in Leicester is Beauchamp college. Otherwise how far can you live away from Leicester? Market Bosworth is excellent school all round and would be my preference. Lots of rural kids, farming community etc. Live close to the schools and well within catchment though as due to infill house building the catchment may change.

oh the op wasnt researching secondary schools for her toddler

she was looking for fodder to start a debate on the whatsapp group

The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

After that happened, why did you raise it again?
If you actually respected her, you wouldn't have. Instead, you goaded her - you already knew her views and you decided to raise the issue again in relation to something very far in the future. If I'd made it clear to someone that I wasn't happy to discuss an issue and then they repeated it in another context I'd be really irritated and feel disrespected. It sounds like she bowed out with grace. She did say she valued the friendship but immediately you're being a total drama queen.

the challenge sometimes is not having gender critical views but also how you express them. if you want to convert people to your opinion, you have to go slowly and start from things you agree on. when an argument escalates, people aren't listening to reason and that is always a bad sign.

The tide is turning already, OP. By the time your child is at school, I think it'll be better

Gender is a divisive issue. I'm careful who I discuss it with IRL

I have a group of close friends who I have known for more than 20 years.
From what I can tell none of them share my gender critical views. We have spoken about it enough for me to know that. I now don’t comment or engage when it comes up- not willing to lose friends over it. I do think it’s very sad that a group of extremely intelligent, well educated career women are pandering to the nonsense but it isn’t my job to educate them.

I'm sorry this happened. I think similar happens with a group I was part of although I never got a reason for why they dropped me.

I don't agree with the people saying why mention it when it's had already been clear her stance on it. That is how this ideology took such a hold people quietly disagree but don't want to cause upset by saying by so until the loudest voices made the policies and rules. She shared her article. Why should you not share your comments on school policy?

Regardless I bet there were women in that chat who didn't comment/argue and the peer pressure of people leaving the chat had them leave too as they were too scared to loose friends over it.

Someone has to speak up for our children. Look at what has happened to the famous people who have spoken up. Look at what has happened to the academics. This is the cost of speaking up. But eventually enough of us will be speaking up others have the courage to do so. It's already happening.

I do think though you should resign yourself to loosing the friends. Even if they do change their mind getting back in touch with you means admitting they were wrong which may be too hard for many people to face up to. Also what's helped me accept loosing a group of friends is seeing that without my kids around the constant pick pick erosion of their boundaries they are more able to stand up for themselves. If you don't want your child at schools that push this stuff why would you be happy with them around so called friends who are pushing it. Doesn't exactly make you feel better immediately but it helps longer term.

I have quite a few t shirts I wear with gender critical slogans or feminist slogans. It draws out the other GC people. Not made any friends yet as I'm pants at making friends but it's initiated many friendly chats at groups and soft play. And I always make a point to say "I like your top/scarf/whatever" if I see someone you lose wearing gender critical stuff as I know how lonely it can be being honest and open about your belief in biology

I wouldn't have conversations like this, especially on a group chat. I wouldn't have conversations regards various things with people I have as friends since school.

I'm not one to get overly upset about a conflicting view but I can see others might and things can get very messy.

Most people I know share my view on this subject anyway; that being it's dangerous and we're now sick of it. There are other subjects however that I know we'd have different views on.

If there are other shared things you can connect on in your group then focus on them. It doesn't sound like you've been rejected but no one wants to get drawn into this. Some may agree with you, they just don't want all the drama. I'd find it a bit much in a group chat tbh

I'd find your friend quite difficult to interact with personally as her position is very firm and I wonder whether she has to be so militant in support because of her livelihood. Just avoid this subject!

You'll find MN threads where in you can openly discussed and debate these things. Maybe use that as your space for now.

People very commonly research primary and secondary schools to make sure they’re living in range of one that might work for their child. So nothing unusual about that.

OP perhaps you could see if you have a Resisters group near you to find other women to connect with IRL.

they don’t research the trans policy of a school their child will not be attending ding for another… decade “very commonly”

@BestEffort kudos to you. I imagine it isn't an easy position to take; particularly depending where you live.

I haven't really encountered people with opposing views to me on this. I don't know how I would deal with a friend saying child is now they/them etc. I hope it won't come up.

I feel for you, Op. It's a very emotive issue. I have a long-standing male friend who is very much in the TWAW camp and I'm struggling to navigate this friendship atm because much of what he posts on social media I believe to not only be factually incorrect but potentially harmful.

There's not much I can say to ease the pain but I do think you are justified in your concerns around gender affirming care for children. I think this whole thing is going to come back and bite society on the arse big time.

I was converted to reason via MN feminism board 😁 Although I did have one poster tell me to fuck off when I said but what about this and that.

I now kind of understand the passion behind it but softly softly usually wins the day.

The OP says her child is a toddler

It's possible some of her friends have elder children as well as younger ones and she used the example of the local college policy, as she felt they ought to be aware of the policies that might well be being floated in the ones their children attend or are due to attend.

Sorry you're feeling alone in this op. I haven't dared to raise the issue with any of my friends. We all have kids in their 20s and half of the kids seem to be 'non-binary'. My DD knows how I feel but she's very 'be kind' as half her friends are non binary too. Mumsnet Feminism: sex and gender board and Twitter are good for finding like-minded people although Twitter is a bit full on and a rollercoaster of wins and losses. It can be very funny. The Women's Rights Network has real life groups and is fighting gender ideology. Hopefully by the time your child goes to school there'll be less indoctrination but you're wise to check them out. The government is in the process of issuing new guidance to schools based on the Cass Review's recommendations.