Disown by mum friends who I have known for 20 years due to my gender critical view.

[rouxelitee]

I am a bit sad today because I have been disowned by my group of friends who are mothers. I have known them since college. All of us have children, mine is a toddler.

One of them is a paediatrician. Let's call her JY. She supports the trans-movement for children. Recently she has shared an article with the whatsapp chat group on sexual and relationship saying that this should be how children are parented. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/sex-relationships/
I didn't agree with the gender and identity section and I called it out. I said that affirming children in this matter will make things worst. The conversation escalated and she basically cautioned me that this is hate speech and if a doctor have the same view as I do, their license will be taken.

Fast forward to today, my partner and I are have been researching on local schools and their policies on the same matter, preparing ourselves for when our child is of school age. We found out that this school in Leicester has the following policy.

7.3 In accordance with the Equality Act 2010 we will not inform a parent or carer about a student being Trans or gender questioning.
7.4 Confidential information will not be shared with the parents and carers without a student’s permission, unless there are safeguarding reasons for doing so.
_
https://www.newcollege.leicester.sch.uk/force_download.cfm?id=3190

I felt that this is such a massive red flag, that I need to warn all my friends to look into their school policies.

JY then said "Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group." A few others followed and quit the chat group.

They will possibly not talk to me ever again. I am very sad and I feel very alone in this matter, and that my partner and I and alone in this battle alone trying to protect our child from the state, the school and dangerous ideology.

I guess I just want to not feel like a crazy person shouting on top of my lungs "please look into this, this is bad".

Thanks,
roux

You can’t ‘caution’ someone for hate speech if it isn’t hate speech! 🙄

Just because she is a doctor doesn’t mean she is right. In fact I’d probably think worse of her as her mind is supposed to be rooted in science - not allowing child abuse to happen. Tbh a lot of the doctors that have walked kids down this path should be in jail. I know three doctors and 2 of them are narcissists.

Let any one who chooses to keep their mouth shut on this or actively encourage it - go.

Regarding policies - they can change at a drop of a hat. Just keep an eye on them

but how do we know what was said during this “escalation” of the conversation that the op doesn’t elaborate on

This hinges on what was said by OP during the escalation. But it does seem that whatever was said, and how it was said, was enough for the rest of the group to want to avoid any further discussion on it. And that is their right.

It seems that OP 's attempts to put her views across were counter productive. And that's the problem with a lot of the tone used by many GC people. I have similar opinions, but I'm unusual in this branch for trying to maintain a calm tone and not forcing my views on anyone or showing anger when I talk about it. OP send to have pushed the subject on to an unwilling audience, not once, but twice.

Complex and emotional subjects need careful handling if you want to influence people, and it's very often missing (sometimes on both sides) on this subject.

Ultimately friendships are more important than rhetoric, and OP got it wrong.

Or maybe using flowery language and trying not to offend actually got us in this mess in the first place.

She didn’t get it wrong she pointed out flaws and dangerous policies. That can all be done with out showing anger.

If people choose to look away whilst this is happening for the sake of political correctness then they done OP a favour

Very old and established friendships SHOULD be able to withstand some honesty and plain speaking. Especially when it comes to safe guarding children.

My oldest friends and I fundamentally disagree on a particular issue than means a lot to me. We've discussed it in the past, but now we simply don't discuss it any more.

We've been friends for a long time, and we're clearly both able to see our relationship as more than that one issue, and value each other.

But the secret to that is that we both know when to shut up. That continuing to try to change minds or push the agenda in the way that OP did, would likely destroy our friendship.

This isn't about converting someone to a religion, but a health, mental health, safeguarding and child protection issue. The policies around this should be evidence based. It is a problem that people think this is about "belief", when it is about biological facts, evidence and the safety of women and children.

I agree that posting the school policy in the whatsapp chat after the first discussion was unwise. This issue will not be decided by you convincing three friends but by courts and politicians based on evidence. At least that is my hope, and it seems to be going that way.

I disagree that the policy OP is objecting to isn’t “evidence based” and is unsafe for children. On the contrary I think it is appropriate and protects children from possible homophobic/anti trans violence from home when they are at school. There are areas of autonomy for children that parents might need to respect. Religion and identity might (or might not) be among them.

I could be wrong—OP could be wrong—but at any rate this is a policy argument not all that different from other pedagogical/institutional arguments over children’s rights to autonomy and respect and not a life or death moment for OP to demonstrate she doesn’t understand that some communities feel teachers have a duty to respect a child’s evolving bodily, psychological, and moral autonomy.

This is the kind of reason people don't want to be friends with people with these views
youre being incredibly patronising and acting as if I couldn't possibly have thought through anything that I think and believe, just because I disagree with you.
i also didn't say gender critical people were homophobic or racist, but it's the same instant "no thanks" from me as to who I would want to consider a friend.

I would ask you to say this to the Mosques and Muslim families that their children should be protected from their family religious views and that homosexual views will be allowed and encourage for their children when they are at school.

The view you are pushing isn't a global universal value. Singapore, China, Malaysia, Korea, India and people from many other countries do not agree to these values that women can be men and vice versa. This view is a progressive western view, and non-Western people are often perplexed by this.

Schools must respect that each family have their own values and religions. These policies destabilise children from the best support they can get from their family, and break the family relationship down for life.

People should recognise that such policies that drive a wedge between children and their parents do not help children at all. Schools must nurture the bond between children and their family. This is not honoured by the policy I have quoted in my first post.

Wtf are "homosexual views"
kids who grow up in Muslim families can be gay, so you think they shouldn't be supported by school? Do you think that telling gay kids that they're wrong to be gay because their family won't approve is the right thing to do?? Wtf??

I am saying that you should tell this to the Muslims, not me, that the school will support their children to be gay and see what their responses are.

I have no view on that particular topic but I can predict what the Muslims responses will be.

Let me reiterate my point. Schools should nurture the bond between a child and their parents. School should respect that each family has it's own values and religion.

This applies to any family that has conservative or traditionalist religious views though. Which is why some Christian fundamentalists choose to homeschool. A parents religious choices does not override a schools duty to safeguard their pupils. Anyone who is agreeing to send their child to a school is agreeing that their child will be educated under the same policies as any other pupil. Schools should nurture the relationship with parents where it is safe for the child to do so. There are various religious beliefs that some families may hold that would be deemed harmful to children that teachers would be trained to intervene in. Religious or cultural context is not an automatic free pass.

Not to mention that we know there have been killings and maimings of children by (at best mislead) parents/relatives under the guise of religion or cultural tradition. When we start to say that teachers always have a requirement to inform parents of everything in every case then you're treading into dangerous waters.

I would counter that schools affirming a child's preferred pronouns without informing their own parents is harmful to children.

Probably for the best.

Established friendships should acknowledge different people have different views about certain topics and avoid banging on about them when it’s clearly not a welcome topic of conversation. I’ve a friend who really believes in homeopathy and uses it to treat her kids. When she suggested it as a treatment for my daughter’s illness I said sorry but for me I don’t believe in it. Neither of us brought it up again.

‘The Muslims’ is not one homogeneous group. OP you sound racist and ignorant.

Purely for factual accuracy. India has recognised legally transgender people since 2014 and you can have it on your passport.
The “rest of the world is perplexed by this” is a really lazy trope. They may not be partaking in the debate on ‘Western’ terms but gender beyond the male/female binary has long been recognised in South Asia with some references going back to the Mughal period.

Transgender surgery is legal in Iran (for complex reasons). And it is not a bastion for gender equality or homosexual tolerance either.

Please don’t make sweeping statements about the rest of the world and make it into a West versus the Rest issue. Certainly not inaccurate ones.

"Much as I value our friendship, I do not have headspace to engage in these issues. I'll bow out of this group."

Very calm and measured. Doesn't sound like you've been 'disowned'.

Prezackly. There are many reasons why public schools might see the need to keep a child’s confidence in order to protect a child from abuse in the home or community spilling over and injuring the child. What about Sarah Sharif? If she had reported the abuse to the school should the teachers have been obligated to expose her report to the father?

but speaks volumes to me that from that the Op extrapolated they will “never” speak to her again and have “disowned” her.

To your final statement here…

I think it would be more pertinent to question why a child doesn’t feel safe enough to talk to their parents before/rather than their school. If they are choosing to tell school over family, then the bond you mention is already in question. I feel dreadfully sorry for the children who are made to feel unsafe in their own homes by parents so steadfast in their opinions that they can’t even enter a reasonable discussion with them.

I've worked with children kicked out of their homes and disowned because their parents found out they were identifying as transgender/non binary not involving anyone but the child and their peers affirming them. It has to depend on the circumstances and what's best for the individual child.