Free Pass to be useless

[User198724]

This is going to sound very pessimistic but has anyone else just had enough of men being socially condoned to be useless?

Im so sick of men putting in limited effort with the kids and being hailed a wonderful dad, not “noticing” when the housework needs to be done and “just not thinking about” kids activities, school events, doctors appointments etc.

Why is it socially condoned that they don’t need to make decisions about the household or even make their own doctors appointments.

it is absolutely bullshit that women have to carry the brunt of every burden and still not be recognised like a man would be.

thanks for the rant!

The sexes are socially conditioned differently. Some boys grow up with their mum's waiting on them hand and foot and aren't taught essential life skills. I know a man in his 40s whose mum cleans his flat.

Many women find themselves acting as domestic servants after they've had children. Women are expected to be caretakers and men are not conditioned to take care of others.

Expectations of men and boys are low with constant exclamations of boys will be boys! excusing their behaviour. It's no wonder that many turn out to be feckless and won't take responsibility.

I know NAMALT however my perception is that men are much more likely to be self centred than women. Their needs and wants come first and they expect people around them to put them first. Women, once they've had children, put their children first (rightly so). Society also prioritises men's needs, you see this everyday. Men are still expected to be the main breadwinner, women are still the go to for anything child related. These men have all these 'important' jobs, can drive and maintain a car, use a lawnmower, figure out a mobile phone and apps however evidently a washing machine or dishwasher stumps them.

Unless society changes, it won't change. Women have woken up to the fact that men haven't kept up and frankly aren't going to pick up anytime soon so are now simply not having children or only having one. I think many women are pushing back but the patriarchy is too powerful and men have too much to lose.

The dishwasher is easy enough - but those motorbikes aren't going to ride themselves.

Men and women just put effort in in different parts of life.

Men don't always recognise what women do in the home.

Women don't always recognise typically men do much longer paid working weeks often in physical jobs.

I worked away for 3 weeks and was home being a home maker for 3 weeks. I've done both sides of the coin and would pick being home any day.

DH confessed he just doesn't see the dirt. I told him it was bollocks, that he just doesn't want to see it.
Because of a few events in life I realised it's true, he sees the mess not the dirt. We worked out that it is the nature of our personalities, he is an innovator and ideas person, so just sees the bigger picture I am the completer finisher so look at the minutiae of things.

If there's one thing I despise, it's the way fathers get lavish praise for doing the bare minimum.
Male entitlement is why they don't do their share. It doesn't matter how hard the woman works outside the home either. The men still won't carry their weight. There are, of course, exceptions, but every man seems to claim to be an exception. I suspect they conveniently delude themselves.

The term “weaponised incompetence” sums this up to me. For me personally it started off just picking up things that needed doing and before I know it I am not only the main bread winner but I do the school runs, clean the house, take care of appointments and the kids.
I know different people bring different things to a relationship but it should still be an even split

So your wife/partner went away for the 3 weeks you were home being the "homemaker"?

You could turn this round and argue the things women get praise for being “strong and independent” over are entirely typical for men to do?

No, I did 90+ hours a week on an oil rig in 3 week stints. Then I came home and I was the primary parent.

She had 2 years off, then worked 2 mornings a week as a teacher, building up to full
time over about 5 years.

When she went back to work I paid for a cleaner who did cleaning, washing / ironing etc.

So you didn’t do the home and the work part then? The bit where you keep track of who is where, what appointments need covering, sorting lunches and school runs and the social life of the child, all while working full time?

And you paid for the cleaner.

It doesn’t really sound like a joint effort to cover childcare, household tasks and work between you.

I worked away for 3 weeks and was home being a home maker for 3 weeks. I've done both sides of the coin and would pick being home any day.

Sorry but if you were away physically for 3 weeks, she was parenting alone. When you were doing 'your' three weeks she was there, right? So you did half the parenting. Or did she fuck off for those weeks?

Have you spoken to him about this?

From a guys perspective, men and women typically have very different views on how clean / tidy a home needs to be. He probably doesn’t care if there are clothes on the floor etc.

Relationships are a trade off of doing things for each other. You’re wanting him to live to your standards / expectations on things that matter to you but likely not him, What are you offering in return for him?

Nope, when I was there I did 90% of the parenting, school runs, household jobs.

When I was away she had a child minder 15 hours a week, and about the same again between 2 sets of grandparents.

Around this I renovated 2 houses for the family. Paid all the living costs and worked the equivalent of 45hrs a week 52 weeks a year.

I did 100% of the school runs, pack ups, sports days etc when I was home?

When I was away she had a child minder, support form both sets of parents and a cleaner?

I think I was quite clear. I am the breadwinner, do the child care, life admin, clean the house and look after the lawn… what more could I possibly be offering in return?!

Are you saying that on top of doing all of this I should also be finding other things that are important to him to barter to do his share as an adult within the household?

I also see the same behaviours with work mates and family, it’s not isolated to relationships.

A few years ago I had a penny drop moment regarding male behaviour. I listened to a radio interview with the author of a book called "Why We Fight". One simple sentence he said has stuck with me - he said "Testosterone is the status seeking hormone."

Men are on a constant conscious/unconscious quest for status and I see it all around me now. Doing housework, life admin etc carries zero status (unless they want to gain status in the eyes of their partner) so it simply doesn't register. Sadly many men, once they have 'won' their partner no longer see the need to impress her, to gain status with her, and their focus moves to other areas - work, hobbies, material possessions. They see having children as proof of their fertility and manliness (status) but once they have them they put little effort in to the mundane tasks of child raising - no status.

I've read countless threads about useless partners and how they only start making any effort when the woman tells them it's over. They then need to regain status with her and all of a sudden pull out all the stops to impress. It's totally self serving behaviour.

Interesting isn't it when men move into typically female spheres, eg cookery, their involvement automatically generates status not generally afforded to women in the same career. How many TV chefs are women, when its mostly (not all) women who do the majority of cooking.

I'm getting off track now, but I hope what I've said makes sense. It's certainly helped me to understand the behaviour of many men I encounter.

That does make a lot of sense.

Status seeking… it makes sense of male conversational style as well.

I’ve failed to install it in my sons and they are such good company!

I think women tend to be more solution focused in a collaborative way.

Again, slightly off topic rambling.

Another thread derailed by a man.

Men failing to bring up their sons properly. They should organise classes for them. Mandatory paternity leave. Major reform of CMS so they can't get away with abandoning their kids. And more contraceptive options for men.

That oughta do it.

It’s clearly a complicated and emotive topic with 2 sides. It’s also a pretty common one.

You're understandably angry he isn’t ticking the boxes that matter to you. But does any of this stuff matter to him?

It’s very easy for relationships to be a race to the bottom, you get busy parenting and working and stop making time for each other. The physical relationship dwindles and women often underestimate how much this matters to most guys. Resentment grows and you stop helping each other.

Dating as an adult is dreadful, divorces are damaging emotionally and financially for everyone they involve.

The alternative is that you as by the sounds of it the leader in your relationship can try and help him get back to being the guy you once chose to make a life with.

I really don't understand why men hang around MN and especially feminism and relationship threads where women are discussing male/ female relationships.

It's incredibly creepy and actually tantamount to abuse because they ALWAYS:

1. gaslight
2. try to make a pathetic case for why men aren't the way the OP and other posters find them and/ or
3. Talk specifically about how they personally don't do what is being discussed and usually go on to talk about their perceived strengths.

Of course there's a counter argument, but we don't need it mansplained to us. We don't want women's spaces to be invaded by men telling us how it is.

I always wonder how the women in these men's lives would react if they knew they were commenting on MN. Well I don't wonder - I know for certain they would be revolted of course. But these men don't tell their female friends and family (and partners if they have them but I sincerely doubt any do) that they get a kick out of agitating women from behind a keyboard. Who wants to a cowardly bully in their life?!

I understand that MN can't stop men posting. They could just masquerade as women. But it is often hard for posters to ignore them so they always without fail derail threads, try to dominate the conversation, cause upset... how familiar!!!

Would male posters read the room for once - the vast majority of women here do not want to hear your opinions or even have you comment here. So FGS just go away and stay away!!

Totally makes sense and yes, explains a lot. Great post!

Come on ladies. You can do it all! You can book the marriage counselling, remind him when and where it is, and when it fails, you can call an end to the relationship as well. He’ll step up with communication then, making sure everyone knows it was your fault, that you just didn’t want to work at it.

It’s fascinating how much power men will happily hand to women in their relationships.

And how many of us accidentally fall into that role, doing all the emotional labour.

And so many men seem unable to manage a whole life for themselves alone. They apparently can’t manage social relationships yet still need the validation of others. Hence single men having shorter lives and poorer health than married men, suffering social isolation and so on.

It must be quite tricky for them.

There was a program on channel 5 last night- mums on strike.
I didn't watch it, but was cross- it makes it acceptable for women to be doing other all and almost expected.

Because echo chambers are destructive?