Free Pass to be useless

[User198724]

This is going to sound very pessimistic but has anyone else just had enough of men being socially condoned to be useless?

Im so sick of men putting in limited effort with the kids and being hailed a wonderful dad, not “noticing” when the housework needs to be done and “just not thinking about” kids activities, school events, doctors appointments etc.

Why is it socially condoned that they don’t need to make decisions about the household or even make their own doctors appointments.

it is absolutely bullshit that women have to carry the brunt of every burden and still not be recognised like a man would be.

thanks for the rant!

I agree. I'm for no direct contact with them in response to their posts, but I do reserve the right to lampoon them.

It’s only an echo chamber if you believe that women - 51% of the population - are insufficiently diverse within their own sex class.

Do you struggle to see women as full humans, completely independent of men?

Either way, men on MN give me the ick. Weirdos.

I think the way men are socially conditioned all around is sickening.
No effort put anywhere and lots of men seem to hate the partner they have and treat them terribly.
They refuse to step up and do chores or be responsible for their own children.
They easily abandon their families to go off with someone else.
They'll happily sit on the arse while their partner struggles trying to juggle work, home and kids then wonders why their partner has no energy to spend time with them or to even look after herself.

As for the next generation, we are raising men and women and it is up to us to make sure we raise responsible and good people. It's hard to undo the damage that a shit partner will do, but we can make sure our children know they're safe and secure with us and start from there.

I really feel for the ones who want to be capable. They do a bit and it's great, they do too much and they get teased for it by men AND women. I think it's tall poppy syndrome - one doing a great job shows up the other men who don't and the women who either put up with it or infantilise the men in their life. It's the same thing we see in women trying to nail their career in male dominated fields.

So other than the couple of years when there are small children crawling what is the driver for cleaning your hose weekly?

I completely agree that relationships are about compromise, you want to clean the house weekly, he'd probably go for 6 weekly. You think him cleaning it weekly because that's what you want is a compromise?

We both agree that relationships are about compromise. If you don't want to hoover that's fine. I'm sure you agree that food needs to be cooked, clothes washed, food bought and planned for, surfaces cleaned, washing up done, laundry put away, children collected from school, dentist appointments, Dr appointments, bathroom cleaned, bed linen changed and so on.

If you don't want to hoover, a compromise would be to cook or shop or any of the other things that keep a house functioning. I'm sure you agree that it's unfair to burden one person in the partnership with all those tasks.

Could you imagine a guy writing this about a woman?

No. This is one of those instances where it doesn't naturally flip. Bit like a woman going to a mens forum and insisting they are all wrong. Can't imagine that either.

I completely agree that it's in the best interest of the family for both parents to contribute equally.

However I don't think you can just pick a subset of jobs and claim one party is at a disadvantage. There is a large amount of work goes in to maintaining a household which isn't listed here. And men on average typically do 6 hours more paid work per week then women.

Ugh I’ve just RTFT and this would’ve been an interesting discussion if it hadn’t been derailed. Can everyone stop engaging with them? Let’s decenter men!

My DH manages it. But I think he only gets away with it because he looks like Mike Tindall. Very little piss taken. He calls his pathetic mates pathetic.

Possibly related to why all the military types do housework.

This post sort of says the way society views it - it is the woman's fault no matter what.

It is all their mums's fault for bad behaviour of grown men.

bizarre.

My husband isn't like that nor was my dad. But my god have I seen so many useless men. I don't think it was their mum's fault.

Do you think the reason why military types pull their weight is because of the accountability put on them by superiors?
Which also links back to the status driven behaviours discussed earlier.

I don't think all military types do pull their weight once they're in a relationship but they definitely do in barracks. Being inspected by someone who can make you spend your weekend repainting road markings tends to do that!

@MrsTerryPratchettthat's actually got me thinking about the power balance element. Maybe a lot of men will do it for someone they see as powerful but not when they don't. Which would tie in with what @WatchingTheTime said about status - they'll make the effort if they respect their partner enough to value her validation. If the man already has the status from being physically bigger or fitter he is less likely to feel like basic housework is beneath him.

On a related note, has anyone else noticed that it's only the weakest and most pathetic men who refuse to get a vasectomy to benefit their family?

Struggling betas.

If fathers do more work than mothers, that's often because women have the burden of running the home, looking after the children and working. Many women's careers take a hit because they cut back on their hours, take time off or take more flexible work that fits around children's hours.

Their contribution towards the running of the house, means that fathers can work longer hours.

I obviously haven't listed every single task that goes into running a house. I can of course claim that women are at a disadvantage because statistically they are.

Women do way more tasks than men to keep a home functioning. That's a proven fact and something you can observe from glancing around. Even when a couple split and do 50/50 the burden is rarely equal.

Hahaha, bravo 👏👏👏

One of the reasons I had to leave my EXDP was that he wanted me to do all the DC things, take care of the cooking cleaning and house, PLUS I was the higher earner by far.

Instead of him enjoying the fruits of our joint labour and supporting with the household, he resisted even getting a cleaner for a very long time even though I was the one paying for it.

From my experience, the patriarchal society we live in means a lot of men struggle with a women who earns more than they do. My EXDP became lazier and lazier, ruder and ruder and eventually emotionally abusive. I left for the sake of my sanity and my DC.

Ironically now that my EXDP lives by himself he has to do everything for himself AND the DC when they go to stay with him. If only he'd been future focussed enough to see where his behaviour would take him. On MN it seems there are so many men similar to him, he is far from unique.

Is there evidence that they pull their weight? For example, they may hoover and tidy more but are they also contributing towards running the house and all child related activities?

I get that it's very hard not to engage as his whole purpose is to get a rise out of women. He gets a sick kick out of invading a female space and telling us 'how it is'. The more we disagree the more he gets to correct us and feed his fetish. It's trolling and conversational rape and he cares not one jot that he is unwelcome here.

good one

Something to make you chuckle @PurpleSparkledPixie

@Laidbackguy says on another thread that “I now avoid” interacting with single women because basically it’s a minefield of political correctness

Imagine how upset those single women must be 😆

This is a really good point. The OP is about men being socially conditioned to be useless. But the reality is that they are only socially conditioned to be useless when there is a woman around. They are perfectly capable and willing to do housework when they live alone. And in fact often take it to extremes. Many single men I know have extremely clean and tidy homes. It's like a badge of honour and there's also something about high achievers usually having some type of OCD.

So the social conditioning isn't about being useless. It's about keeping women in their place.

I believe that boys and girls are socialised differently and expectations and pressure means that girls are expected to be more compliant and home focused. They're also taught to be more considerate of others.

I can't give any examples of men waiting hand and foot on their sons or cleaning their properties but I'm sure there are. My example wasn't meant to criticise women but to point out that even when they're grown adults, they are still infantalised.

If they have been waited on and no expectations placed on them, then they move in with their partner expecting a like for like experience.

@Laidbackguy is actually quite disturbing

He says prostitution is in many cases basically a woman following the money and no vulnerability or desperation whatsoever

He’s divorced and very evidently his ex instigated, and his bitterness about this drips off so many threads

He will soon be banned i suspect