Free Pass to be useless

[User198724]

This is going to sound very pessimistic but has anyone else just had enough of men being socially condoned to be useless?

Im so sick of men putting in limited effort with the kids and being hailed a wonderful dad, not “noticing” when the housework needs to be done and “just not thinking about” kids activities, school events, doctors appointments etc.

Why is it socially condoned that they don’t need to make decisions about the household or even make their own doctors appointments.

it is absolutely bullshit that women have to carry the brunt of every burden and still not be recognised like a man would be.

thanks for the rant!

Patriarchy makes it so.

It is enraging.

And as you can see from our interloper, men really don't like women talking and take up their time distracting and diverting.

I would recc no further engaging with the man here.

So, there's a whole lot not said in this post.

100% agree kids (not just boys) not having positive male role models is a missive issue, however its quite childish to suggest this is just down to dead beet dads when there are just as many vindictive mums blocking access.

When you say men aren't parenting their sons properly what do you mean? Men and women typically have quite different parenting styles, this doesn't mean hers are right and his are wrong. We should probably stop trying to make little boys follow the social norms of little girls because that experiment has failed.

You'd rather go to work than be a parent, crack on, that's between you and him?

Sadly you can't force a person to be an active part of a child's life and even if you could would you want to? I'm not sure how you'd reform CMS to change this?

We could make family law more fair so more dads who wanted equal or primary care could have it, but I can't see that happening.

I know but it really is making me feel physically sick 🤮 Why do they get a kick out of doing this when they are is clearly not welcome?! They always get nastier too when they're not agreed with. It absolutely drives home the point about all the absolutely disgusting things about men's behaviour towards women. And shows that they have zero shame when it comes to outright creepy, nauseating behaviour - their determination in the face of repeated calls to just fuck off to 'tell us how it is' and get us to see that they are right all the time, is just mind blowing. It sort of shows me how men can commit rape - women would never find it arousing to have sex with someone who wasn't attracted to them, never mind physically and mentally resisting. But men don't care when women don't want them - they just plough on anyway in their pathetic arrogance, totally oblivious to the idea that they might have completely misread the situation and that in fact the woman or women could, shock! horror! actually be right in their assessment that he is an abhorrent blight on humanity.

Can you show where I've been nasty please?

You prefer an echo chamber?

I know a few couples where the men do all the cleaning and cooking. Oddly they are mostly ex-military and almost OCD about cleanliness.
No coincidence that cleanliness has been an issue between them as the wife's standards aren't good enough for the man's!
Bit of a turnaround to the usual.

You can say this but there are tasks that still need to be done, saying he doesn’t care if they are done or not does not negate the fact that someone has to do them.
I don’t particularly want to be making dentist appointments, attending all the required school interviews and making sure the bills are paid, and I can’t imagine my partner does either, but they still need to be done, which by default falls to me.
Your views only work with the assumption that someone else will pick up the pieces or that the tasks are completely irrelevant however this is not reflective of the situation in the majority of cases.

I know a couple like that, Deydo. He was in the navy and needs every minute filled and everything shipshape. Not sure how he was with his DC, as I think he was probably away a lot.

It interesting the socialisation exerted on girls, which is resisted by dads if expected of boys. As the PP has pointed out effectively.

I’m more a fan of raising girls not to tolerate crap and raising boys to be aware of the needs of those around them. I’m not into gender bias at all, but we do need to counteract socialisation proactively, given the crap ‘be kind’ slogans imposed on girls.

I’ve seen lots and lots of families and children. Parents are often taken aback by their daredevil girls, and ‘weary yet proud’ about their daredevil boys.

I do see different tendencies in boys and girls, and am fascinated by what’s intrinsic and what’s socialised.

All our children deserve to be raised with the skill to balance personal needs and compassion.

From a guys perspective, men and women typically have very different views on how clean / tidy a home needs to be. He probably doesn’t care if there are clothes on the floor etc.
Even when there is a baby that needs sterilised things (ie there should be zero different perspectives) a man is usually a filthier, lazier person. As for leaving clothes on the floor, that is a childish behaviour that most people grow out of. If you haven't then maybe it's time to be an adult?

@WatchingTheTime - that was interesting and actually mirrored what I've been realising myself the past couple of years. A form of Disney Dad, only it's DisneyMan.

Another interesting male trait is making space revolve around him. Manspreading writ large, if you will.

Women more usually feel the room and join in (with the exception of my mother who launches into whatever she’s thinking regardless of what’s already in play!). Men more usually expect to set the tone and dominate play, regardless of who else is there and whose space it is.

Patriarchy chicken is fun, where you don’t catch the balls and let them fall like lead balloons.

So apart from the babies bottle all of that is personal preference. You feel it's important, others may not. The rest is clearly just designed to be antagonistic.

Most people want to live in a clean and tidy home, especially when you have children. You can't have children living in filthy conditions as it's considered neglect.

I agree that it's antagonistic to call men filthy and lazy. The point being made is that many men are perfectly happy to live in clean tidy homes but don't want to contribute towards that.

Cooking, cleaning, washing etc are all essential life skills for living an independent life and should be taught from childhood. It's nonsensical to suggest that a man can't use a washing machine or make a meal. Women don't innately know how to do those things, they learn.

If you agree to have children then you should pull your weight in caring for them and not leave the full burden up to your partner. That includes admin, appointments and other arrangements that are part of child reading.

Most mothers work as there's little choice these days and are stuck with the majority of responsibility running the home and childcare. They find themselves running on empty 24/7 and part of that burden is taking care of another adult who is happy to sit back and watch her run herself into the ground.

I think SS would disagree with you. But you've just proved to the rest of us what you are trying to accomplish here by calling my post antagonistic 😂

Relationships are a trade off of doing things for each other. You’re wanting him to live to your standards / expectations on things that matter to you but likely not him, What are you offering in return for him?

Let me have a wild guess, is this about more BJs?!

Running a house is not about personal preference.

It’s about having suitable clean presentable clothes for school. Having suitable food for lunch at school. Having PE kit clean on the day it’s needed. Making sure health needs like optician and dentist are attended to.
Having a house that is tidy enough that people can find their shoes in the morning. Believe me, that actually does take work.

When men accidentally shrink or dye clothes because it’s far too hard to understand how to do washing properly, they are clearly choosing not to learn how to do an important part of household management and parenting.

Unless you plan to send your son to school in a pinkish shirt, and let your daughter wear one that barely does up because you shrank it, then you’ve assumed someone else will sort it out.

The real issue with that infernally complicated business of managing clothes, is that it’s women’s work so must be able to be done blindfold with one hand tied behind your back, because women can do it. So men make no attempt to do it correctly- and assume women will rescue them.

What pisses me off extra, is when men end up with their DC 50/50 and suddenly learn how to do because, guess what! No one else picks up the pieces. Well they clearly could have while still married.

And of course, a single dad doing laundry properly is a hero! Poor man, he manages so well!

'It’s very easy for relationships to be a race to the bottom, you get busy parenting and working and stop making time for each other. The physical relationship dwindles and women often underestimate how much this matters to most guys. Resentment grows and you stop helping each other.'

OP, you just need to give your chap more sex

I don't entirely disagree with much of what you say here, but I feel there's a big aspect of perspective to it.

I'd feel I had failed as a parent if my son couldn't cook, use a washing machine, iron a shirt etc. at the same time I've made sure he can change the oil / filter on a car and fix his his own bike which I don't think most girls would be expected to know.

Parents should 100% work as a team and support each other, but both should be mindful of the contribution the other makes and also recognise when something is a want and not a need.

Lots of women would expect a house to be cleaned from top to bottom every week, most men left to their own devices would probably do it every 6 weeks. You can call it manky but I think you'll struggle to find any health consequences of not vacuuming for 6 weeks. There's even the hygiene hypothesis that kids are allergic to everything these days because we clean our homes too much.

Does the partner who want's it cleaned weekly have a right to be angry at the one who who doesn't care? Should she be able to dictate how he spends 1/2 their Saturday?

Again on the parenting thing, dads tend to have different ideas to mums. I don't remember parents pandering to kids in my day in the way women seem to feel obliged to today. We were basically kicked out in the morning and told to come home when the street lights came on. Dads today seem to basically parent the same way everyone did in the 80's/90's, it's women that have changed.

I've only got one kid so going to 2 1/2 hour parents evenings a year and letting him tag along when I go to the dentist never seemed a massive hassle. I guess if you have a bigger family a child with medical needs this could be more of a pain.

I've increased the number of bj's but he still leaves his dirty socks on the floor and crumbs all over the worktops. Now what?

all over mumsnet, specifically the Feminism forum

and very likely…. in RL to your ex many many many time

Scantily clad cleaning.

Cleaning your property weekly should be a bare minimum. If you've got pets or young children, you need to keep on top of things. You can't have babies crawling over a carpet that hasn't been hoovered for six weeks. God knows what it would be putting into its mouth.

We don't have to go to extremes, squirting bleach over everything every day is too much but you'd be expected to clean the surfaces after cooking and clean the floor if food was dropped on it.

If you're going to enter into a relationship, then there's going to be compromise and if you're going to have children then you need to be prepared to pull your finger out. If you're not prepared to then stay single and childless.

I don't see why you can't teach a daughter how to look after her bike, change a tyre or check the car for oil. Just as you teach a child of either sex to do chores around the house and show consideration towards others.

BJs while he cleans. It's awkward and you do get soapy water dropped on your head so there's that.

I know you're joking, but if we do that they just move the goalposts and demand anal. Then something else. Meanwhile, the socks still sit there like an exclamation point on a LTB post.

Ahem!

"Lots of men would expect a dick to be serviced from top to bottom every day, if not twice a day, but most women left to their own devices would probably do it every 6 weeks, if at all. I think you'll struggle to find any health consequences of not pleasuring the phallus for 6 weeks. There's even the hygiene fact that women get UTIs because of the bacteria from fucking their husbands too much.

Does the partner who wants sex daily have a right to be angry at the one who doesn't care? Should he be able to dictate how she spends 1-2 minutes of every day?"

{Bonus points if he takes longer than two minutes}