Consent issue. Spanish footballer vs her federation's president.

[AussieCallil]

I'm really impressed with Jenni Hermoso's No Shit Tolerated attitude on this.

Says she did not consent to be forcibly grabbed by the head and kissed full on the mouth (bleurgh) by Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales.

He dismissed it as an exuberant, celebratory 'peck'. Apparently her complaint is "false feminism" and an undeserved "social assassination" of his character.
<sigh> 🙄

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/U6C6qPpoG6I
(Independent Sport evidence clip)

[Real charmer.
He also pointed at the players then grabbed his crotch as Spain won. Standing next to the Queen and her 16-year-old daughter. Classy].

81 players confirm they will not play for Spain's women's team until he is removed from his post. Good for them.

Hermoso released a long statement on social media: "I want to make clear that at no time did the conversation to which Mr Luis Rubiales refers to in his address take place and, above all, was his kiss ever consensual."

She added his claims were "categorically false and part of the manipulative culture that he has generated".

"I feel the need to report this incident because I believe no person, in any work, sports or social setting should be a victim of these types of non-consensual behaviours. I felt vulnerable and a victim of impulsive-driven, sexist, out-of-place act, without any consent on my part," she continued.

"Quite simply, I was not respected."
She added that she was put "under continuous pressure" to help with a "statement that could justify" Rubiales' actions - and so were her family, friends and team-mates.

England's Lionesses backed her immediately. Yay them.
Their official statement:
“Unacceptable actions allowed to happen by a sexist and patriarchal organisation. Abuse is abuse and we have all seen the truth.

“The behaviour of those who think they are invincible must not be tolerated and people shouldn’t need convincing to take action against any form of harassment. We all stand with you, Jenni Hermoso and all players of the Spanish team.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk./sport/football/66621772

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/24/spanish-football-president-in-kissing-row-denies-new-misogyny-allegations

Ah. I see that there was already another thread yesterday!
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4880783-is-jenni-hermoso-the-turning-point

Just watched video expecting to be creeped out and actually I don't think a non sexual kiss like that would bother me from somebody fighting my corner and clearly overjoyed about my success. But I guess some people would be offended so it's not for him to choose. But really I think a stern word would have sufficed.

However, I have quite a few friends from countries where kissing on both cheeks is customary. Often the older women are worst for the sloppy cheek kiss tbh.

I'm very much against misogyny but I just don't sre that here. I see a man extremely happy and proud of what the women of his country have achieved.

Cheek kissing, as he did to all her team mates, is one thing.

Forcibly grabbing her head in both hands and full-on lip kiss is another.

The kiss controversy is only the media focus, though. A lot going on behind the scenes sheds a different light on why Rubiales power-playing would have offended her. Really good explanation by @MattDamon on the other thread opened my eyes for sure.

However, I have quite a few friends from countries where kissing on both cheeks is customary. Often the older women are worst for the sloppy cheek kiss tbh

I lived in Spain for years, cheek kisses are perfectly normal - though they're more a cheek to cheek moment (the kiss part is more implied with facial movement and sound than someone deliberately planting their lips on your cheek) - but kissing anyone you are not close family/in a relationship with on the lips is still not acceptable or normal.

I don't understand how him claiming she "picked him up first" means he is allowed to kiss her on the lips? Where is the logic in that? Hugging during a celebration is one thing, but kissing on the lips is another.

He shouldn't have kissed her on the lips but I can't get all frothed up about what wasn't intended as a misogynistic or sexual act. Guy was rooting for them and overjoyed they'd won. I just feel like people are looking for a reason to froth here. Honestly it puts me off 'feminism'.

It wasn't a sexual act yet because it was done by a man he gets crucified and loses his career and potentially his ability to provide for his family. Were it a woman I guarantee nobody would care.

And fuck the Lionesses. They're no angels themselves.

And fuck the Lionesses. They're no angels themselves. ???

Rubiales is that you?

Would he have kissed the male captain of the Spanish team on the lips? Unlikely.

Would you be ok with your boss kissing you on the lips after you completed a good day's work?

i'll wait to see what pans out on this rather than bowing before twatter.

so Fifa has launched into the issue on the apparently right twatterside.

that would be the famously corrupt FIFA whose primary interest whatever the gender of the game/issue has long been money money money?

I’m the opposite, I watched it thinking it’s probably a storm in a teacup - but actually it creeped me out and I think she’s right to make a stand. He would not have done that to a male player. Yes he was very happy but that does not excuse it. The way he holds her head in both hands, she would not have been able to move away from it. Totally different to a kiss on the cheek. Also it doesn’t really matter whether or not it seemed ‘sexual’ - he imposed on her.

It wasn't a sexual act yet because it was done by a man he gets crucified and loses his career and potentially his ability to provide for his family. Were it a woman I guarantee nobody would care.

///

None of us except this young woman get to decide what's classed as a sexual act.

He is a man in a position of power and influence, much more so than she has. It's an abuse of this power.

And men like this never lose their ability to provide well for their family. Once the dust settles I'm sure he'll find his feet.

--

This montage makes him him look much creepier. And I think, an uncomfortable watch
Anyone think this guy was too much?

Yuck!

I'm the first to call out sexism and male violence against women but I don't see it here. I understand he's been a cunt behind the scenes so they are taking a stand on this non-issue.

I have a lot of sporty online and RL friends.

It's been heartening to see the number of men who are completely supportive of the Spanish team's stance. OK, there are still too many dinosaurs who think that being pawed is something women in sport should just put up with (and think it's OK to post along those lines) but they really do seem to be getting fewer in number, and are being robustly challenged.

(Goes without saying that all women are fully supportive).

But with one FA president not going at all to a World Cup final, and the other behaving utterly appallingly when there, it shows that there is still some distance to go in ridding sport of misogyny.

To be honest I thought that all the long hugs were a bit too much anyway without the kiss. You can congratulate someone without grappling them and picking them up.
I am sure a lot of women have like me experienced the guy who holds on to the hug for just that bit too long (well not for me any more, but in my younger years).

Guy was rooting for them and overjoyed they'd won

When you are at work, it isn't OK for a colleague to grab your head with two hands and kiss you, even if you have pleased that colleague very much with your performance.

I can't imagine living in a world where people were clutching people's heads because they thought they had done well.

When Spain won he grabbed his crotch as a celebration.

The guy is a twat and he'll quit sooner or later.

Have they sexually assaulted someone lately? Was it one or all of them? Just wondering what they did to all receive the bold statement of “fuck them”

I’m actually astonished people like @ReginaRegina are downplaying this. She was sexually assualted, and is being sued for it. He also did a fireman’s lift round the touch to another player. He wouldn’t do this to make players. How the actual fuck isn’t this total and utter sexism?!

Hes an utter creep. He should be sacked. Can't stand these men that think it's OK to stick their lips on females.

Who cares if you don't "see" it. She experienced it. Don't you think her view of the thing matters a hell of a lot more than your view from your couch watching tv?

Luis Rubiales is the same as many successful men, who think their money makes them always right, and always attractive to women. Men who are used to getting their own way. 'I will not resign. I will not resign.'

He is discovering that just because he is wealthy and in the public eye does NOT give him the right to do as he pleases, to grab what he wants. He is just discovering that a lot of women regard him as a lewd ignorant vulgar little creep.

Must come as a shock to so arrogant a man 🙂