Consent issue. Spanish footballer vs her federation's president.

[AussieCallil]

I'm really impressed with Jenni Hermoso's No Shit Tolerated attitude on this.

Says she did not consent to be forcibly grabbed by the head and kissed full on the mouth (bleurgh) by Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales.

He dismissed it as an exuberant, celebratory 'peck'. Apparently her complaint is "false feminism" and an undeserved "social assassination" of his character.
<sigh> 🙄

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/U6C6qPpoG6I
(Independent Sport evidence clip)

[Real charmer.
He also pointed at the players then grabbed his crotch as Spain won. Standing next to the Queen and her 16-year-old daughter. Classy].

81 players confirm they will not play for Spain's women's team until he is removed from his post. Good for them.

Hermoso released a long statement on social media: "I want to make clear that at no time did the conversation to which Mr Luis Rubiales refers to in his address take place and, above all, was his kiss ever consensual."

She added his claims were "categorically false and part of the manipulative culture that he has generated".

"I feel the need to report this incident because I believe no person, in any work, sports or social setting should be a victim of these types of non-consensual behaviours. I felt vulnerable and a victim of impulsive-driven, sexist, out-of-place act, without any consent on my part," she continued.

"Quite simply, I was not respected."
She added that she was put "under continuous pressure" to help with a "statement that could justify" Rubiales' actions - and so were her family, friends and team-mates.

England's Lionesses backed her immediately. Yay them.
Their official statement:
“Unacceptable actions allowed to happen by a sexist and patriarchal organisation. Abuse is abuse and we have all seen the truth.

“The behaviour of those who think they are invincible must not be tolerated and people shouldn’t need convincing to take action against any form of harassment. We all stand with you, Jenni Hermoso and all players of the Spanish team.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk./sport/football/66621772

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/24/spanish-football-president-in-kissing-row-denies-new-misogyny-allegations

So she was asking for it?

By winning the World Cup.
By playing a sport where some other people rip their shirts off or do cartwheels.
By participating in something that cost her country 'millions of pounds'

I wondered why he didn't say 'shit, sorry, I got carried away. I really shouldn't have, I thought it was ok but was clearly wrong. I'll be more careful

I did too and apparently he DID say this, but then decided to change his mind about it all.

Goodness knows what has been going on behind the scenes. It should have really all been a storm in a teacup but he has doubled down and made even more of a prat of himself. Hug and kiss on the cheek, fine. Kiss on the lips, not fine and definitely not in such a forced way.

I'm really surprised at the responses. I had a similar situation (although without the World Cup win & global TV audience)

An older man gripping my head and kissing me was horrible. I was shocked and frozen at the time and the anger came later - so I understand how it feels and why the "she didn't react at the time" commenters don't get it.

Never underestimate the levels of misogyny in everyday morons

Righto. So women with a differing opinion to you are “thick” and “morons”? Feminism at its finest!! 😂😂😂

Women who blame other women for being victims of sexual assault are thick morons yes.

Did you think feminism meant you can’t criticise women who are misogynists 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Anyway @Buildingthefuture care to explain how a woman hugging a man is sexual assault but a man kissing a woman on the lips against her will isn’t? You’ll have to explain to to me as it’s not computing

Ok my post wasn't best articulated then.

But I think you know that and aren't as much bothered by my words just the fact you haven't a problem with what he did.

Take 2 - None of us except this young woman get to decide whether this is an inappropriately intimate. It happened to her so she decides

Really. So if he had shook her hand she could decide it was a sexual handshake.

But he didn’t shake her hand. He kissed her on the lips without her consent. She’s stated she didn’t consent. Have you no opinion on the fact she didn’t consent?

I was surprised to see how young he is. Had expected a much older man, along the lines of Sepp Blatter. My husband is 64 and knows this sort of behaviour is completely out of order. How can a 46 year old man not understand this?

Again with the thick morons @WeetabixTowels Such a persuasive, well thought out argument. Have you ever considered a career in politics? 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

You’re not going to answer then why you’re victim blaming a woman who’s been sexually assaulted?

Victim blamers are thick morons yes. I’m not sure it’s the shocking controversial opinion you think it is. Then again YOU are a victim blamer so I suspect I’ve just hit a nerve

Rich saying I don’t have a well thought out argument @Buildingthefuture when you think a man being hugged is sexual assault but a woman being kissed against her will isn’t. I still dont understand how you’ve reached that conclusion

Stating that consent needs to be given by both men and women is in no way victim blaming. Equality is massively important and so often sadly lacking, but you do not achieve it by having one rule for women and another for men. Footage appears to clearly show that she picked him up. She did not seek his consent for that. If, as pps have stated, that footage is doctored (link?) then that is a whole new level of unacceptable and needs immediate investigation.
If however, she did pick him up, I do not view that as any less of an “assault” than the kiss he gave her.

@ReginaRegina @Buildingthefuture

The discussion here is mainly focused on the kiss but what happened afterwards is as important.

He could have apologised, say he did it in the heat of the moment and admit it was not appropriate.

Rubiales chose to release a statement in which he insists the kiss was "consensual".
Which prompted Hermits to clarify that in no way it was.

Clearly he is entitled and believes he is untouchable.

Luis Rubiales: Spanish FA activates 'sexual violence protocol' after Jenni Hermoso kiss - BBC Sport

Latest article from the BBC, including timeline to date, and meetings that are expected early next week

Any Spanish speakers here? I'm curious to know exactly what these protesters are chanting.

Encouraging to see a lot of men standing together with the women in solidarity. Makes it far harder for certain factions to dismiss the whole controversy as "those bloody angry women with an axe to grind" (another missing-the-point Twitter comment I just read). 🙄

https://www.euronews.com/video/2023/08/26/watch-protestors-gather-in-front-of-spains-football-federation-hq

@AuntieStella Thanks for posting that. Useful.

Just read that Rubiales’ mother has gone on hunger strike apparently over this 🤦‍♀️

@Outwiththenorm I've just read that this morning; I couldn't believe it!

Interesting commentary article on the BBC website this morning

Luis Rubiales: Hermoso kiss 'shows why women don't report abuse' - BBC News

The player’s view is unclear. Immediately afterward and in the bus back to the hotel she laughed and joked about it, as did her team mates. I myself was shocked by the kiss and by all the hugging — but the play’s statements of outrage now are at odds with what she said on the day (night) of the match.

So if someone doesn't show immediate trauma then they must be lying?

I've been in a group situation at work event with colleagues where I've been made to feel uncomfortable by unwanted contact from a superior. I've then had colleagues make a joke about said contact at my expense during/directly after the event.

I played along in the moment because I was embarrassed, "didn't want to make a scene" and minimised the behaviour in my head by trying to blame myself for causing it in some way by my own behaviour. However later on when someone asked about it privately, after I had had time to go over the situation again in the cold light of day, I knew I was not to blame but it was still hard to admit that I had felt uncomfortable with it and the joking around afterwards even though the colleague I was talking to immediately apologised for the jokes that had been made because they hadn't realised how uncomfortable/unwanted the contact was.

Wow. So reading this thread, re-reviewing footage, realising the picking up image was doctored has totally changed my mind on this.

Please hear me out here. I originally thought this was overblown. I have experienced a severe sexual assault (rape) and to me initially, classing what I felt was an exuberant celebration as "non-consensual sexual assault" felt a bit over the top and almost like it minimised what I went through.

But now, I understand the furore. This is so much less about the kiss itself. If he'd just said "I was just so proud of the team/ captain and what this means for our country that I'm sorry my actions overstepped. I fully apologise and I will be more careful of boundaries and how my actions affect others'". That would have been it. Crisis averted. Men who might have responded similarly might have reflected and thought "you know what, next time I'll think a bit more too."

But he didn't. He minimised it. With full video footage evidence, he told her how she should have felt. He has tried to use his position of privilege to dismiss her feelings. He hasn't reflected. It's sheer arrogance. It's lack of respect. It's lying, in plain sight. There will never be world-stage evidence of severe sexual assaults such as rape. If we want to show our daughters that sexual violence must be reported, perpetrators must be brought to justice, we must at least challenge these other behaviours that make us feel violated. Challenging this behaviour is about RESPECT and it's about what this behaviour REPRESENTS. And by minimising it he's continued to give the green light to other men to do the same.