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Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

Consent issue. Spanish footballer vs her federation's president.

85 replies

AussieCallil · 26/08/2023 05:13

I'm really impressed with Jenni Hermoso's No Shit Tolerated attitude on this.

Says she did not consent to be forcibly grabbed by the head and kissed full on the mouth (bleurgh) by Spanish football federation president Luis Rubiales.

He dismissed it as an exuberant, celebratory 'peck'. Apparently her complaint is "false feminism" and an undeserved "social assassination" of his character.
<sigh> 🙄

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/U6C6qPpoG6I
(Independent Sport evidence clip)

[Real charmer.
He also pointed at the players then grabbed his crotch as Spain won. Standing next to the Queen and her 16-year-old daughter. Classy].

81 players confirm they will not play for Spain's women's team until he is removed from his post. Good for them.

Hermoso released a long statement on social media: "I want to make clear that at no time did the conversation to which Mr Luis Rubiales refers to in his address take place and, above all, was his kiss ever consensual."

She added his claims were "categorically false and part of the manipulative culture that he has generated".

"I feel the need to report this incident because I believe no person, in any work, sports or social setting should be a victim of these types of non-consensual behaviours. I felt vulnerable and a victim of impulsive-driven, sexist, out-of-place act, without any consent on my part," she continued.

"Quite simply, I was not respected."
She added that she was put "under continuous pressure" to help with a "statement that could justify" Rubiales' actions - and so were her family, friends and team-mates.

England's Lionesses backed her immediately. Yay them.
Their official statement:
“Unacceptable actions allowed to happen by a sexist and patriarchal organisation. Abuse is abuse and we have all seen the truth.

“The behaviour of those who think they are invincible must not be tolerated and people shouldn’t need convincing to take action against any form of harassment. We all stand with you, Jenni Hermoso and all players of the Spanish team.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk./sport/football/66621772

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/24/spanish-football-president-in-kissing-row-denies-new-misogyny-allegations

OP posts:
WhenLifeGivesYouLimes · 31/08/2023 10:28

enchantedsquirrelwood · 27/08/2023 12:33

I wondered why he didn't say 'shit, sorry, I got carried away. I really shouldn't have, I thought it was ok but was clearly wrong. I'll be more careful

I did too and apparently he DID say this, but then decided to change his mind about it all.

Goodness knows what has been going on behind the scenes. It should have really all been a storm in a teacup but he has doubled down and made even more of a prat of himself. Hug and kiss on the cheek, fine. Kiss on the lips, not fine and definitely not in such a forced way.

Yes, this. It's not OK, but neither is it completely unforgivable.

If he'd apologised grovellingly and said he'd got carried away, but acknowledges it was wrong, would learn the error of his ways etc etc then everyone would have forgotten the story already.

LittleBrenda · 31/08/2023 10:54

Inamuddle36 · 31/08/2023 09:34

The player’s view is unclear. Immediately afterward and in the bus back to the hotel she laughed and joked about it, as did her team mates. I myself was shocked by the kiss and by all the hugging — but the play’s statements of outrage now are at odds with what she said on the day (night) of the match.

When I was nineteen I was working in a pub and the landlord went on holiday and we got a temp. When the other bar staff and I were leaving after closing he held the door open for us but he stepped in front of me as I was passing and squashed his body up against mine and rubbed himself against me. I was jovial about it in the carpark with the other people but I went to pieces later.

How fucking dare he use his position of authority and his physical strength to touch me when I didn't want to be touched? And at work.

Well, we know why he dared. He dared because it 'wasn't that bad' as assaults go and because there were other people there and because young women are conditioned to put up with it.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 31/08/2023 11:04

Inamuddle36 · 31/08/2023 09:34

The player’s view is unclear. Immediately afterward and in the bus back to the hotel she laughed and joked about it, as did her team mates. I myself was shocked by the kiss and by all the hugging — but the play’s statements of outrage now are at odds with what she said on the day (night) of the match.

Often it's easier to laugh off/dismiss unwanted intimate attention. Then you consider how public a global stage she was on.

The delay you see is what's commonly known as "shock".

She had every right once she's processed the event to think "that's not right ".

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 31/08/2023 11:06

Changingmymind66 · 31/08/2023 10:18

Wow. So reading this thread, re-reviewing footage, realising the picking up image was doctored has totally changed my mind on this.

Please hear me out here. I originally thought this was overblown. I have experienced a severe sexual assault (rape) and to me initially, classing what I felt was an exuberant celebration as "non-consensual sexual assault" felt a bit over the top and almost like it minimised what I went through.

But now, I understand the furore. This is so much less about the kiss itself. If he'd just said "I was just so proud of the team/ captain and what this means for our country that I'm sorry my actions overstepped. I fully apologise and I will be more careful of boundaries and how my actions affect others'". That would have been it. Crisis averted. Men who might have responded similarly might have reflected and thought "you know what, next time I'll think a bit more too."

But he didn't. He minimised it. With full video footage evidence, he told her how she should have felt. He has tried to use his position of privilege to dismiss her feelings. He hasn't reflected. It's sheer arrogance. It's lack of respect. It's lying, in plain sight. There will never be world-stage evidence of severe sexual assaults such as rape. If we want to show our daughters that sexual violence must be reported, perpetrators must be brought to justice, we must at least challenge these other behaviours that make us feel violated. Challenging this behaviour is about RESPECT and it's about what this behaviour REPRESENTS. And by minimising it he's continued to give the green light to other men to do the same.

Edited

👏 Great post. I'm really sorry for what happened to you.

I hope this episode serves as a wake up call for all the men (I know NAMALT blah blah blah but way too many are) who think it's ok to touch a woman when and how they like.

beguilingeyes · 31/08/2023 11:12

He's obviously got previous. That photo of him carrying a woman over his shoulder like a piece of meat is vile. It's a power thing too isn't it. He's effectively her boss. It's not coming from a team-mate.
I just watched the Taylor Swift documentary Miss Americana and there was an incident where a guy put his hand up her skirt. He got sacked for it and took her to court, where she got all the usual crap about 'Why didn't you scream'? etc.
She had seven witnesses and a photograph and she still wasn't believed, so yes, it's no wonder that women don't report.

AuntieStella · 31/08/2023 21:50

Inauthentic · 31/08/2023 21:47

Scroll up the thread a bit, and you'll see it's already been discussed.

I don't see how that makes the earlier unwanted and non-consensual physical contact in any way OK.

Inauthentic · 31/08/2023 22:00

I have only shared the article.

I didn't say it makes the kiss ok.
But I can see how it can be used by some media outlets and Rubiales supporters to spin the event.

NorwayLass · 02/09/2023 22:55

interesting that these are just photographic stills and not a video! Did he jump up or was he lifted? Who knows …. and it seems we are not allowed to make our own minds up by actually watching the video ourselves. Either way it’s irrelevant to the kiss

User56785 · 02/09/2023 23:45

NorwayLass · 02/09/2023 22:55

interesting that these are just photographic stills and not a video! Did he jump up or was he lifted? Who knows …. and it seems we are not allowed to make our own minds up by actually watching the video ourselves. Either way it’s irrelevant to the kiss

There is a video.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12456583/New-footage-Luis-Rubiales-Womens-World-Cup-final-kiss-DISPROVES-Spain-FA-claims-Jenni-Hermoso-lifted-trophy-presentation.html

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