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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

Giving baby HIS name - losing my feminist card?

228 replies

Artemi · 29/04/2023 04:43

Hi there, posting as genuinely unsure what to do re: future DC's surname.

DH and I both kept our surnames on marriage, which was important to me for reasons of feminist principle.

DH offered to take my surname but I refused as I'm not close to my family (particularly my dad who is a total arse) and it's not even a particularly nice name
We did consider both double barrelling but frankly cba and we never got round to it

Anyway, I feel like on principle I "should" give DC my surname.

However I genuinely think his surname is nicer, and it makes sense for DC to share the surname of the supportive extended family

I'm not totally opposed to double barrelling but feel like I'd be doing it purely on principle.
One of my friends mentioned giving DC both surnames (no hyphen) so my name is on official documents but can be dropped for day-to-day use if wanted (is this a thing?) or to give one surname as a middle name (his would work well as it can be a boy's first name)

DH is happy with whatever I choose.
I'm scared if I give them a clunky double barrelled name I'll regret the actual name, but if I give them the nicer surname I'll constantly feel defensive about making an "unfeminist" choice

In hindsight, I really wish I'd changed my surname by deed poll before marriage and could then happily pass that on to future DC. I thought I'd made peace with my surname, reclaimed it as "mine" rather than my difficult father's, but evidently not ..
😁

OP posts:
ZiggZagg · 29/04/2023 04:46

I gave DS my husband's surname but I have a DD from a previous relationship who has my name. Sorry if that doesn't help ha!

LucyWarlowsRightHand · 29/04/2023 04:49

It’s not too late to change your surname now!

That said, (and my children have my surname, not their - active and involved - father’s) imo it’s about making a conscious choice, not a power struggle. If that’s genuinely your deliberate choice, then I see nothing wrong with it.

CurlewKate · 29/04/2023 04:52

What is the issue with hyphenating? Don't use your name without a hyphen, that's just like using it as a second name-it will just disappear.

Incidentally. I have NEVER heard a man talk about his last name the way women do-about how it reminded him of a problematic family, or not liking the way it sounds. It's just his name. I think women should practice feeling like that!
Hyphenate.

LightDrizzle · 29/04/2023 04:58

You have valid reasons for choosing your husband’s name over yours. It’s not an unthinking or browbeaten surrender to patriarchy.

I faced a similar situation, but without the positive reasons to favour one name over the other, and went for the clunky double-barrelled option. Both names are quite unusual and it’s a PITA spelling them out. It also sounds incredibly posh and poor DD1 who has quite an old fashioned name and had a very plummy accent she’s managed to flatten a bit, used to hate it. She ditched it on marriage for her husband’s innocuous name, as is her prerogative.

I still can’t think of a better way out if my situation all those years ago, but in your situation I’d probably plump for your DH’s surname and possible yours as a middle name.

Our surname system is such a pain. It’s still patriarchal but I prefer the Spanish convention of children taking the patrilineal surnames from both parents.

Original poster
Artemi · 29/04/2023 05:08

CurlewKate · 29/04/2023 04:52

What is the issue with hyphenating? Don't use your name without a hyphen, that's just like using it as a second name-it will just disappear.

Incidentally. I have NEVER heard a man talk about his last name the way women do-about how it reminded him of a problematic family, or not liking the way it sounds. It's just his name. I think women should practice feeling like that!
Hyphenate.

This is so true (about men's names just being "their name") and I think why I didn't seriously think about changing my surname earlier- I had channelled my inner man and just thought of it as "my name"

I am surprised by how I suddenly feel "urgh" at passing it to future DC though - I wasn't expecting that. Almost like I believe my family/dad will have some "claim" to them

Interesting..

OP posts:
HowManySunflowers · 29/04/2023 05:10

Why not just take your husband's name now and all have the same name? It doesn't mean that you're not a feminist, it just means that this isn't one of your feminist principles. You can still be a feminist and raise your DC as a feminist - there are lots of other more important issues to fight for!

Hazelnuttella · 29/04/2023 05:10

I didn’t change my surname when I got married. However when I was pregnant I thought I would like to share a surname with the baby, so I double barrelled mine.

DH said that he would be happy to double barrel his too and the baby could also be double barrelled. However it’s a very clunky name that I didn’t want to saddle the baby with, so I said that DH should keep his own surname, and the baby would have that. (DH would have also been happy to give the baby my single surname).

I have now gone back to my own single surname because it was such a clunky name and I hated it. I thought I would really be bothered about having a different name from the baby, but I’m not.

My reasons for not giving the baby my surname is mainly that as I’m married to the baby’s father, if they had different surnames it would appear that it’s not his child.

It’s not perfect, but I feel that I’ve taken one step in the right direction by keeping my own name. And babies need to have someone’s surname. Can’t smash the patriarchy in one generation.

Original poster
Artemi · 29/04/2023 05:15

No significant issue with hyphenating, just that it's longer and more burdensome and worse than either name on its own.

Given that DH doesn't care feels like there's minimal advantage compared to just giving mine alone- double barrell would still have the difficult associations of my surname, whilst also being longer

But yes probably will end up going down the double-barrel route in the end I suspect. Feels like the most egalitarian thing to do.

OP posts:
Original poster
Artemi · 29/04/2023 05:22

HowManySunflowers · 29/04/2023 05:10

Why not just take your husband's name now and all have the same name? It doesn't mean that you're not a feminist, it just means that this isn't one of your feminist principles. You can still be a feminist and raise your DC as a feminist - there are lots of other more important issues to fight for!

Personally for me I feel very strongly that I don't want to take DHs name

I would know that I wasn't just doing it unthinkingly and so would he, and I would be honoured to be a member of the XYZ clan (his family are great and have treated me like a long lost daughter) BUT the appearance (and reality!) would be yet another woman who has taken her husband's name, and I want to be a small drop in the changing tide away from that assumption

I would prefer to have a different name to DC than to take DHs name

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 29/04/2023 05:22

Incidentally, if anybody would like to join my one woman campaign to replace "double-barrelled"with "hyphenated" you'll be very welcome. Double-barrelled was invented by Punch magazine to mock rich posh people with the link to double-barrelled shotguns. Now, I have no problem with mocking posh rich people, but it would be so much better if we could get rid of the associations!

GrumpyPanda · 29/04/2023 05:28

If you feel your dad is problematic OP would your mother's name be a possible alternative?

Original poster
Artemi · 29/04/2023 05:29

Genuinely didn't know that about "double-barrelled!" I thought that was just what it was called. Will be using hyphenated from now on @CurlewKate

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 29/04/2023 05:48

@Artemi I didn't know either until quite recently. It'll be an uphill struggle to change it, but I like a hopeless cause!

Twiglets1 · 29/04/2023 05:53

I would change your surname to his. Only on the grounds you like it better. That’s a valid reason to change a surname, doesn’t mean you have abandoned your feminist principles.

ASGIRC · 29/04/2023 06:17

Where Im from, you always get mom and dads surname. Sometimes multiple surnames from both (while the most common is 2 surnames, it is not totally uncommon for people to have 4 surnames 2 from mom, 2 from dad)

I see zero issue with this!

And Im also 100% against changing my name because I got married.
Again, not that common where Im from, and you dont CHANGE it, you just ADD you husbands name to yours. I still wouldnt do it.

Roundthebend45 · 29/04/2023 06:26

I was in a similar situation and kept my name. My kids have the DH’s surname (it’s nicer than my very boring common one!) and they have surname as a middle name. It’s in official documents but is not used day to day. So they have four names essentially. They are very proud to have my surname as another name. It’s not ideal and in some ways I’m sad I have a different surname from them, but really it doesn’t actually matter. They almost definitely know who their mum is (especially when they need food or money…!).

I know lots of people who have hyphenated or used hybrid names, and one man who changed his surname to his wife’s. I think it’s hard to appease everyone.

Also, if my kids ever decide to change their surname if they get married, then they will still retain my surname as a middle name and lose my husbands surname. Take that patriarchy! 😂

Emilia35 · 29/04/2023 06:27

I had an abusive father and for that reason changed my name to DH's soon after we married. I did discuss both of us changing our names to something cool for feminist reasons... It felt unfair to be the only one changing their name. But DH felt very strongly about not changing his as he'd already changed it once as a child due to his parents marrying and apparently would have caused family drama.

It did feel old-fashioned but ultimately in my case it's much better to have the name of someone I love than someone who abused me. And now I absolutely love us and DC having the same name.

It doesn't have to be an un-feminist choice. It seems silly to keep a name you have no attachment to and then not share a name as a family just because it could be seen as un-feminist, when feminism is surely about personal choice in this matter!

Waggytail · 29/04/2023 06:29

We hyphenated. I wanted DC to have my name for similar reasons to you, and my partner also insisted in getting in there so it was a compromise.

It is more clunky than going for one or the other, though we have had comments that the name seems rather grand for the hyphen! DC also has a super popular first name and my surname is very common so it makes their name a bit more unique.

YouJustDoYou · 29/04/2023 06:30

I thought in terms of legalities when we had ours rather than what our feelings wanted, travelling abroad, school stuff etc would've been more difficult had the kids had different surnames to either dh or myself.

EdithWeston · 29/04/2023 06:32

You sound as if your thinking is a bit muddled

On principle, you want to give your surname (good thing, but....)
Double-barrelled would be only out of principle (bad thing)

DH offered to change his name to yours - time to take him up on that, I think.

I never changed my name when I married. DC have DH's surname, because both are a bit "meh" and the names just didn't work together (if they did, I'd have double barrelled)

RhinestoneCowgirl · 29/04/2023 06:45

DH and I both kept our names when we married, the DC have his name because when we had them he felt more strongly about it - I think he is more concerned with 'what will other people think', some feeling that others would think that the children weren't his. It touched on some insecurities in him that surprised us both I think. Hyphenated for us would have been a bit too polysyllabic.

My DC are now teens and it has not been an issue. Occasionally I have to confirm the different name thing when dealing with officials, as people still assume married = same name, but it's not a major issue.

VoodooQualities · 29/04/2023 06:49

Hyphenated surnames just pass the problem on to your sons and daughters surely.

I wonder what happens when two people with hyphenated surnames marry. Probably what law firms do when they merge... Just drop some of the names but keep one from each. But which one!? Toss a coin?

With each generation one or more of the lineages is going to have to get dropped. Once you look at it through that lens, choosing to hyphenate yourself, just to avoid the problem for yourself, is selfish isn't it?

If I could change the rules I'd propose we (1) honour both lineages by passing names along matriarchal and patriarchal lines. Daughters get Mum's name, sons get Dad's. This would recognise the importance of the genetics being passed on via the female line, the lack of which in our current system has always annoyed me greatly. And (2) honour the union by hyphenation for the couple, but the hyphenation is not passed on.

Anyway back in the real world... OP you've said you feel uncomfortable passing on your name. And you've said DH family is supportive. I think in your shoes I'd give the baby his name.

EdithWeston · 29/04/2023 06:55

I wonder what happens when two people with hyphenated surnames marry. Probably what law firms do when they merge... Just drop some of the names but keep one from each. But which one!? Toss a coin?

Probably decide which way sounds the nicest. Or perhaps a standard way of doing it will emerge, maybe like the norms in Spain where its been done stretching back through the generations - first part of surname is first part of father's, second part is second part of mother's.

ALittleBitAhAh · 29/04/2023 06:56

I went to school with siblings who's parents gave them a new surname. The siblings were the same as each other, but wasn't the surname of either mum or dad (mum kept her name when they married).

JanuaryPinks · 29/04/2023 06:58

OP I was in almost exactly this position. I have my dad’s name. He was a dick and I was raised by my mum. I would have changed my name to hers except I was named after her sister (who also
kept her maiden name) so it would have meant I had exactly the same name as my aunt.

Anyway I didn’t change my name on marriage for all the same reasons as you. When we had kids though it felt wrong to insist that they had my name over my husband’s when literally none of their extended family had this name whereas DH has a big supportive extended family all with his name. Also I just know my dad would have taken it as some kind of “win” which I couldn’t stand.

We ruled out double barrelling as both names are very long and end in the same sound (like eg Montgomery-Morrissey but not that).

Anyway I ended up giving both kids my mum’s maiden name as a middle name with no hyphen. So they can choose whether to use it day to day or not. I’m happy with it as a compromise.