Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

Look up microchimerism too OP. Even if the baby isn't biologically the surrogate's it still changes her body (eg skeleton moves and doesn't shift back) and can leave lasting cells from the baby. Which is why a PP said she could have some xy dna after carrying a son.
Also for the donor, the process of creating and "harvesting" - what a term! - eggs is grim and there are risks to the surrogate as with any foreign implant.

And it’s not donating a womb, like an organ. It’s using women’s bodies as a service.

It simply should not be socially acceptable to buy (even if it’s ‘just expenses’) this. People don’t have a right to a baby. They simply don’t. However much they might want one.

As I said, I disagree strongly with surrogacy, and with my family member about it. But cutting her off doesn't persuade her it is exploitative, whereas maybe discussing it will.

Even if someone had done it once before, that conversation could prevent them doing it again - so I wouldn't cut someone off for a lot of actions that I personally find abhorrent. Perhaps it is harder to cut off a) a family member rather than a friend or maybe b) a woman who has been persuaded that her value lies in producing a baby, by any means possible?

Because one saves your life and the other doesn't? Because one is essential and the other isn't? Because one only involves one sex doing the donation and is therefore inherently wrong?

So

Many

Reasons

I mean, I can see I have some weird cognitive dissonance about it tbh.

Because if it were someone say, using a prostituted woman, I couldn't square that. Nor, to pick something unrelated to feminism, a known drink driver.

Its especially weird as I had a lot of trauma (both physical and mental) around my own pregnancies, which makes the dislike of surrogacy a very visceral thing to me rather than an abstract idea.

I'm going to have to take myself off and have a think about this... 🤔

That’s a slightly different situation. The surrogate is in a very different position to the buyer.

I guess I see it like prostitution. I would utterly reject someone who had bought sex because, frankly, it’s inexcusable. But i don’t see the woman selling the sex in the same
way at all. Her actions are very different.

This OP has friends who want to buy a baby and a a body to gestate the baby in. That’s crossed over into the sort of unacceptable behaviour I would end any relationship
over.

Yes egg and carrier will be different women. That feels better to me too.

Another thing, aside from the risks and morality, the child's life story is now more complicated. Who is their mother? They deserve to know their story, and their medical history on the maternal side. If you stay friends you'll watch a child growing up who will need to know who they are, so hopefully your friends will do the best they can. I really hope it won't all be anonymous and secret.

I think (apologies for the hijack btw, last post I promise!) that because I can see - and did witness at the time - how she has been socialised towards the baby at all costs path so extremely, I want to help her with it. Preferably by unpicking those thoughts and helping her see it isn't the best solution to a shit hand. If it does go ahead, I don't know for sure how I will deal with it.

I think we are closer in position than it appears.

You’re just thinking of a friend who would be a surrogate, rather than one who thinks it’s just fine and dandy to use one. In the same way you’d treat the prostituted woman completely differently to the people using them.

And using is the right word here.

I don't like this at all. A baby should be with its mother. Plenty of children need adoption.

Ah to be clear, my relative - though a het female - can't get pregnant. I'm not sure of the exact details medical-wise, but she has been considering using (absolutely the right word, yes), another woman to carry.

Yes egg and carrier will be different women. That feels better to me too

why does putting two women at risk make you feel better?

egg retrieval is not risk free. It’s a brutal process.

using a donor egg increases the surrogate’s risk of adverse events.

You are not their friend. Do them both a favour and don't go. All that nonsense about rooting for milk - what about mother's who don't breastfeed either through choice or medical reasons? Way to make us feel shit!
I don't agree with surrogacy btw but not for the shitty breast milk reason.

But that is accidental. Surrogacy is deliberately depriving a child of one of its parents.

Because if it were someone say, using a prostituted woman, I couldn't square that

at least a man using a prostitute only uses her body for minutes. Hours at most.

Prostitutes can change her mind at any time. Once you’re pregnant you’re in it for 9 months, or your facing the whole issue of termination, another medical procedure, with all the issues around that- and in the US, would it even be legal?

prostitutes aren’t usually left with permanent injuries, or risk life altering consequences/death.

(yes I’m aware there are men who abuse prositutes and leave them horrifically injured, but that’s a criminal offence, and not a “normal” consequence of selling sex)

and has anyone mentioned what if the baby has genetic issues? Will the parents accept a child with achondroplasia, Down’s syndrome, cleft palate? Plenty of cases where “parents” have simply left less than perfect babies for the surrogate to deal with. Again, with it being the US, would TFMR even be allowed?

some states are banning termination even if risks the mothers life. So surrogacy in that environment? Even riskier.

Oh right.

well I’m not at all on board with that.

Infertility is hard. But it’s not an excuse to commission a baby and use another women to produce it.

We all have biological limits. That is just part of being corporeal beings.

It is.

But carry on.

I will treat anyone who does it, with the contempt it deserves. I don't care who they are.

Its human trafficking for rich people.

It’s human trafficking with added DARVO.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria what you have written about the mother/newborn bond should be read by everyone, especially men who think it's ok to buy a baby.

OP, have your friends a strong preference for the sex of ‘their’ unborn child? As the embryo will be implanted ( woman as flower pot) I guess they can choose. What will they do if the baby comes out as the ‘wrong’ sex, as in a well publicised case of two men who rejected the female child they had commissioned ? What if the child is ‘faulty’ in some other way, will they just refuse to pick it up, as one might with a sofa that had a gash in the seat?

Once you have made the initial decision to commission a baby like a piece of furniture, all the other dilemmas become minor and manageable . It’s a commercial transaction, and you should , of course, get what you paid for.

🤮

I had never thought much about surrogacy until I had my son. The experience of pregnancy, birth, the early days, fourth trimester and breastfeeding made what baby buying really means oh so clear. The only exception is, I think, truly altruistic eg sister/best friend, where that bond between mother and baby is recognised and the relationship allowed to continue.

These men aren't thinking of the mother, the woman whose body they're using, or the baby itself outside of what they stand to gain. What's wrong with adoption if you want but can't produce a child?

Yes egg and carrier will be different women. That feels better to me too

Better for who? Certainly not for the women involved and not for the baby either. It’s a revolting process to ensure the baby has no mother at all.

Always cracks me up how many ‘feminists’ are all my body my choice until another woman makes a choice with her body they don’t approve of.

How do you cope knowing that some women can't/don't breastfeed?

No choice is made in a vortex.

These "choices" depend on huge power imbalances. Do you see wealthy, powerful women acting as surrogates? No.

This also concerns the creation of a new life and the rights/wellbeing of that child.

Plus you'll find most feminists who oppose surrogacy also oppose prostitution on similar grounds. We're not the trendy "liberal feminists", we're the ones who see entrenched power abusing women time and time again.