Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

Surrogacy aside for a moment, this makes no sense. Lots of mothers don't breastfeed, either through choice or because they can't. Does that also break your heart? What about babies that are adopted (by a woman)?

Personally I think this is the point of a good friend: to give us a different perspective on things. You could raise it in an even more neutral way, talk about the legal differences between the USA and Europe (in several European countries surrogacy is banned altogether) and reflect on those together

I couldn't continue this friendship. It's people trafficking and incredibly damaging for the baby involved. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Essentially people are saying gay men are not entitled to have a biological child of their own.*
*
No is entitled to have a child. Unfortunately for gay men they don't have the same options women do. They can either adopt, or coparent with a lesbian couple or a single woman if they want a biological child.

Your last point, you only ever see stories in the media of surrogates who LOVE being pregnant and they love it so much they can't stop having babies and want to help others so selfessly surrogate for others and they're made out to be heros

I agree with this too, sadly.
Really hard OP.

My views on surrogacy are different to yours so I'm going to set that aside for the purposes of this discussion.

This is a significant clash of values. And I, personally, think you should tell them what and how you feel. Friendships should be able to handle differences of opinion and even values divergence, up to a point.

On top of that, I think it would be wrong to hide (or attempt to hide) how you feel. That isn't true friendship and would be unfair and wrong of you.

Speaking personally, if I was in their shoes I would rather you were honest with me about how you felt. Even if that meant the end of the friendship. If you were acting all nicey-nice around me and my baby, and about my baby, but I found out later down the line that you disagreed with how that baby came about, I would hate the very bones of you and the friendship would definitely be over.

I also think that staying quiet, and potentially modifying how you talk about the subject, is that age-old thing of women tempering their views and opinions to appease men. This is where this stuff gets difficult; your viewpoint isn't a universal one and may end the friendship. It isn't a neat answer. But if you disagree with their position and actions that fundamentally, how true to yourself are you being if you hide that?

Nobody has the “right” to a child. A child is another human being, not a commodity. Being able to buy the body of another human should not be anyone’s “right”.

It doesn't sound as though you'd be able to pull off visiting them and not make your feelings known. I'd be the same.

It sounds as though this friendship has run its course because of such a big difference in your values. I would be honest with them beforehand and tell them why you and many other women don't support people trafficking and wombs being bought surrogacy. It will most likely mean you won't be able to visit, they're probably not going to agree and look at adoption instead.

I have serious issues with the money changing hands for a baby, not sure i could get past that. (Genuine altruistic surrogacy eg a sister carrying for a sister I can just about accept)

The idea that surogacy is ok, because some children suffer abuse or neglect, is like saying slavery is ok, because some workers have it worse.

While gestational surrogacy is much more dangerous for the mother and the egg donor, all to cover the technicality of making the baby unrelated to its mother. Disgusting stuff

It's a minefield ☹️

I think you are confusing yourself and your "mixed up" feelings a bit - I for one couldn't call it a "journey" they are going on. I think be honest with yourself how you see it and what you call it, and then it will be easier to decide how you will react.

Hi @AlexandraOrlov i haven’t read all replies, but this is my view:

I believe the baby needs its mum in the first few moments of birth, and I also believe if quickly passes to someone else, baby will be ok.

what I have a problem with is the potential physical and mental damage birth can do. The birth of my son was a disaster and effected me mentally. I was diagnosed with PTSD. If I had given birth to a child who biologically wasn’t mine, I can guarantee I still would have found the experience traumatising and it still would have changed my life. That is why I don’t agree with surrogacy. It breaks my heart for Women who need desperately need the £££

removing a baby from its mother.

Why ’mother’?
What about fatehers, what does it matter if the child has at least one parent who meets they physical and emotional needs?

Why you speak like mothers are some sacred cow?

Bringing a child in the world is undoubtedly such selfish and questionable thing to do in and of itself, but all that should matter is that the child feels safe and loved.

Not all mother’s are good, best for the child. There are a lot of shit mom’s out there.

What are there longer term plans in respect of their child's life story? Are they thinking the surrogate will be involved and everything be open, or will the child grow up having a big question mark over their identity?

I don't think I could get over it OP. Deliberately creating a child to remove from their mother just seems wrong. All that child has known is its mother's voice, heartbeat etc.
As well as the risks to the woman.
Yes, children removed for safeguarding reasons will experience trauma but that is done as a last resort to keep them safe. It's the lesser of two evils, not the entire objective, and done in the interests of the child, rather than for the benefit of adults.

Nobody is entitled to a child.

Gestational surrogate! The word is for a woman who nurtures a baby in her body and gives birth is mother.

I don't see the problem at all. If a woman is happy to help other people have babies, what is wrong with that? I can see that someone may change their mind and may struggle afterwards, but if not, the baby is going to have loving parents who really want them.

I am against surrogacy but I do not agree with your reasons. It is buying a baby, whether straight or gay couples do it.
But babies appear to manage fine when cared for by other people as well as their mum. Really not that unusual for a baby to spend time being looked after by other relatives.

My whole issue with surrogacy is the lack of acknowledgement of how pregnancy can affect the body. It always feels like an afterthought (perhaps this is just my perspective).

I saw an Instagram post about a same sex couple expecting twins via surrogate. All I could think was the complications that a multiple pregnancy can evoke.

What is “happy to help” though?

pregnancy and birth has risks. Do you not see the problem with low income women putting their bodies and lives at risk because a rich man will pay them to gestate their baby?

how many women on here had a nice straightforward birth, no tearing, no pelvic floor issues, incontinence? How many women give birth and don’t suffer long lasting changes to their body?

would these women really put their body through all that, plus the possible life threatening complications, if it weren’t because they need the money?

the reason many people go to the US for surrogacy is because commercial surrogacy isn’t legal here, which oddly enough means there aren’t as many women “happy to help” complete strangers have a baby.

there are cases where surrogate mums have died in childbirth, leaving their existing children motherless.

Most surrogates are for opposite sex couples. I am against surrogacy. But people only seem to complain about gay couples using surrogates. Seems homophobic to me.

Because a newborn is still PART OF the mother. the mother/baby dyad is worth a google.

Our nipples analyse the infant's saliva and if the baby has an infection or a growth spurt the breastmilk changes to meet their needs.

The foetus leaves cells behind in our body. I have male DNA - fetal microchimerism is fascinating.

My smell, sound and heartbeat are all the baby knows. They are birthed into a noisy, bright, noisy and over-stimulating environment, my body is familiar and safe. stressed babies don't thrive. The 4th trimester isn't even properly researched.

Puppies are left with their mother for 8 weeks for good reason - removing it from it's mother too early just produces a maladjusted adult dog. A gay male couple don't get to take their puppy home as soon as it is born. Why do we allow the desires of men to deny the needs of a human infant?

Your comment is grotesque to me.

Surrogacy is not human trafficking 🙄