Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

In response to @HerrenaHarridan

Because it isn't actually a choice borne of complete free will is it? Otherwise wealthy women would be surrogates too. And they aren't.

No one is telling women that they can't be pregnant if they want to be. The issue is with the "commissioning" person/people who want to buy the resulting child.

It’s not a my body/my choice thing when you’re creating a human life to sell.

A woman can 100% choose to be pregnant if she wants.

What I object to is the purchase of a baby and the power imbalance in surrogacy agreements.

I have a friend who has a surrogate child. While I disagree fundamentally with his choice, I don't feel that it means we can't be friends.

I do worry a bit about the child though, who is very confused about where her mother is. Biologically and culturally, mothers are hugely important and I think it's a very difficult thing for a child to not have one. It's even more confusing than a child who is adopted or whose mother has died, because often the egg donor and the surrogate mother are different people. This means that the question of who the child's mother is can't be answered easily. I think the impact of kind of thing on the child is relatively clear to people who have had children, but before you have kids it's much easier to not give it a lot of thought.

My opprobrium is entirely for the buyers, exactly as it is in prostitution. Women can do what they like with their bodies. Other people can't buy and sell them. Or at least shouldn't.

With added baby. Because once the baby is born, and removed from it's mother (something I literally wouldn't do to a dog) it's no longer just about the woman's rights.

And I'll believe it's free will when wealthy women in western democracies are doing it for poor women in the majority world.

Another thing, aside from the risks and morality, the child's life story is now more complicated. Who is their mother? They deserve to know their story, and their medical history on the maternal side. If you stay friends you'll watch a child growing up who will need to know who they are, so hopefully your friends will do the best they can. I really hope it won't all be anonymous and secret.

This is yet another very important angle.

But all this egg harvesting stuff is appalling. It massively increases the risks of the pregancy to both the mother and the baby. Apart from the university students who have been paid to have their eggs harvested with catastrophic effects for their own health

Buying babies is wrong. If you believe otherwise it's because you've been groomed by Hollywood celebrities.

People watch Philomena or Handmaid's Tale and are appalled by the horror of forced baby farming but in the same instant think it's fine if their 'nice' friend does it. It isn't.

If you can't get on board their wishes then don't visit them.

BTW they haven't "bought a baby"; one of them will be its biological father and that baby will be much wanted and loved and raised by its dads..

Which is more than can be said for some fathers according to MN.

Where a financial transaction has occurred they most definitely have purchased services and/or goods.

In this case - a baby in exchange for money is baby buying.

Otherwise its like saying "i didn't buy bread, I just magically got some"

Deadbeat dads as a gotcha is Whattaboutery at its finest.

You hear all the time the argument that the (surrogate) mother “just loves being pregnant!”. If a wealthy woman loved being pregnant, she’d have the luxury of simply having another baby, safe in the knowledge it will be well looked after. Poor women don’t have that luxury. Why do the people using that argument not consider that? Essentially they’re saying that “she just loves being pregnant but can’t afford to keep and raise a baby herself”. Fucking awful.

While I’m on my soapbox, I also don’t believe these women understand the risks. I think they are aware of them, but they don’t actually understand them. For instance, if you told a woman who is considering surrogacy for another couple that she might die, the answer you’ll get is probably something about statistics and some optimism that it won’t happen to her. You would never get a woman say “it’s a risk I’m willing to take” because who the fuck would take that risk?!

Not sure I’m being overly coherent but I feel better having said my bit so I’m posting anyway!

Yep, a relative was recently a surrogate for a close friend, a surprising number of people have found it appropriate to verbally abuse her both in person and via text etc, apparently those people are the ones who decides what she does with her body.

I just think wanting a baby is a natural, irrational desire. And it's not just the desire for woman, I believe.
So, in an ideal world, alternatives like adoption maybe the perfect answer, but it's not that simple, is it?
I struggled to get pregnant myself, and it did cross my mind. Finally got pregnant after treatments, so I was lucky. So I can totally understand people wanting a baby and do whatever takes to hold a baby in their arms.

@Simonjt do you think people here explaining their reasoning for disagreeing with surrogacy would or have abuse women who have acted as surrogates? Do you think that people here are advocating for that?

I just think wanting a baby is a natural, irrational desire. And it's not just the desire for woman, I believe.

This is quite true and people who suffer from infertility, are single or are gay men have all my sympathy. But it still does not make the buying and selling of babies right.

Another deplorable aspect of this trade were all the babies that were stuck in Ukraine when the war broke out. I wonder what happened to them in the end.

Another one clearly not understanding the issue. 🙄

'I want doesn't get' is a phrase we hear when we are children.

But if you are rich the response becomes 'well name your price'

We can't all have everything we want in life, no matter what our desire and instinct is.

We should not be able to negotiate terms and conditions with socially and economically more vulnerable parties over the life of a child.

I've had two children and never once felt an obsessive urge to be close to them or that I couldn't be away from them at any age. They were also both very content being held by anyone. I had no problems bonding and loved them both instantly but never experienced what you describe.

I have no issue with surrogacy and I don't think most people to do tbh and I consider myself a decent person.

I'm obviously in thr minority here, but is the consensus of opinion that married gay men should not have children ? Especially if they're wealthy ? I can't see the problem. Chances are they've done their research regarding bonding, and hopefully will be loving parents.

I think egg and pregnant woman being different dna is worse actually. Worse for the woman for a start (higher risks to her) , and worse in terms of the horrible, calculated attempt to destroy any maternal bond.

So I can totally understand people wanting a baby and do whatever takes to hold a baby in their arms.

There's always a line somewhere. I mean they wouldn't kidnap a child or force someone to get pregnant at gunpoint (things that do happen elsewhere). So it's where the line is drawn. And for me that is asking another person to undergo potentially life-altering and -threatening medical procedures because I pay them.

My line wobbles about WRT genuine altruistic surrogacy by (for example) a mum for her child. I do still worry about power imbalances and pressures though. I think it's difficult if not impossible to be sure it's free from any pressure.

@SomePosters thank you for so eloquently posting what I was thinking. I have not read all of the responses but enough that I realize I am in the minority with my opinion. However, if you feel you cannot keep your thoughts to yourself and celebrate with this couple excitedly awaiting the arrival of their child, you need to cancel the trip. I'm not sure what your lodging plans are but if you are planning to stay with them you had better have a backup plan.