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Feminism: chat

Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

368 replies

AlexandraOrlov · 13/12/2022 23:26

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

OP posts:
TheYummyPatler · 14/12/2022 14:33

antelopevalley · 14/12/2022 14:24

Most surrogates are for opposite sex couples. I am against surrogacy. But people only seem to complain about gay couples using surrogates. Seems homophobic to me.

I think surrogacy is unacceptable whoever is buying the baby.

RoseslnTheHospital · 14/12/2022 14:34

@Emmamoo89 of course it's human trafficking. How else would you describe the commissioning of the creation of another human being, to be taken by the commissioning person/people, paid for by the commissioning person/people?

Itsoktogiveup · 14/12/2022 14:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This, all of it. 😢

grapehyacinthisactuallyblue · 14/12/2022 14:40

What you should do is simple. Don't visit them. Your view and their view is so different. And both unlikely to change their mind. So I would keep the distant relationship rather than visit them. It's not fair on both of you either way, if you hide your feeling or say something and ruin the friendship.

Scout2016 · 14/12/2022 14:40

If you approached a woman and asked to but her baby it would be frowned upon, even if she were very willing to sell it to you.
Likewise if she listed a baby for sale, and someone were happy to buy it.
But commissioning a baby for the purposes of it being handing it over in exchange

Hoppinggreen · 14/12/2022 14:41

antelopevalley · 14/12/2022 14:24

Most surrogates are for opposite sex couples. I am against surrogacy. But people only seem to complain about gay couples using surrogates. Seems homophobic to me.

Not one person in here who is opposed to surrogacy or on any other thread I have seen on MN is saying it’s only wrong for Gay couples to do this.
Women who do it are also criticised

Scout2016 · 14/12/2022 14:42

Posted too soon
For money is some how OK in some countries. Doesn't make sense to me.

BeyondTheLetterOfTheLawTheLetter · 14/12/2022 14:45

Why can you not have a different opinion to them? And just disagree without turning it into a fight?

I disagree with surrogacy in 99.999% of situations, but I can discuss it with my family member without offending them. And they can put their side across without shouting at me or resorting to emotional blackmail. We agree on lots of things, and disagree on others, such is life 🤷🏼‍♀️

Honestly, if you can't have a difference of opinion, that is (IMO) more of a problem than whatever it is you disagree about

SirVixofVixHall · 14/12/2022 14:46

Coyoacan · 14/12/2022 13:26

The idea that surogacy is ok, because some children suffer abuse or neglect, is like saying slavery is ok, because some workers have it worse.

While gestational surrogacy is much more dangerous for the mother and the egg donor, all to cover the technicality of making the baby unrelated to its mother. Disgusting stuff

Agree.
The deliberate use of an egg from one woman in the body of another, to try to sever the maternal bond, seems disgusting to me. Women’s bodies should not be for sale.

ReeseWitherfork · 14/12/2022 14:47

Emmamoo89 · 14/12/2022 14:30

Surrogacy is not human trafficking 🙄

If I sold you my 33 year old husband, it would be human trafficking. If I sold you my 3 year old son, it would be human trafficking. If I sold you my 3 second old new born baby….

RandomUsernameHere · 14/12/2022 14:48

Interesting a couple of posters have mentioned milk and breastfeeding specifically. Do you feel the same way about biological mothers who don't breastfeed?
I am against surrogacy, but not on the grounds of how the baby is fed.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/12/2022 14:50

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy

Think this is important to understanding them. They haven't had the same experience and therefore don't feel the same way. I agree with you BTW but also because of how DD and I were after birth. It's primal.

I don't know if it's possible to talk to them beforehand. Saying that having your DD made you feel things about birth and the first weeks that you didn't before. That you love them but are really struggling with their choice and see if they are happy to still host you knowing that. You can decide together if you can agree to disagree, avoid the subject, or if they are interested in your thoughts.

I don't think I could go, feeling as you do, without telling them.

TeamHerbivore · 14/12/2022 14:50

antelopevalley · 14/12/2022 14:24

Most surrogates are for opposite sex couples. I am against surrogacy. But people only seem to complain about gay couples using surrogates. Seems homophobic to me.

Absolute bullshit.

Theres been lots of threads on Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Nick Jonas and Priyanka Chopra, the Baldwin’s to name a few. Fuck all to do with sexuality and everything to do with buying babies and renting wombs being disgusting,

AlexandraOrlov · 14/12/2022 14:54

Some really interesting (and lively!) inputs, thank you. And fair challenge of my half formed views. Yep, I’d be delighted if they told me they were adopting and I know I’m basing what I think a newborn “needs” on my own not necessarily typical experience.

To respond to Qs:

Yes staying and travelling around with them for a few days. Seeing them is main aim of trip, we’ve been close for 20 years and I love them.

There won’t yet be a pregnancy, let alone a baby, by the time we visit at the rate things are going. But I think they will want to talk parenting and ask advice - they’re excited and see me as a source of wisdom(!). So conversation can’t be avoided but there’s plenty else to catch up on too. Small chance I’ll be pregnant then which will mean more baby talk, and also more hormones which might make my views stronger. And if I’m still not pregnant, I’m not likely to want loads of baby chat which might be a valid reason to ask for not too much of it.

Yes egg and carrier will be different women. That feels better to me too.

The thing is, I still have no idea what side of the fence I’m going to come down on in this (clearly heated!) debate - my head and heart don’t agree and some of figuring that out is probably going to happen when we’re there and talking about it all. I think we can be grown ups about it and handle a difference in views

OP posts:
Pettv · 14/12/2022 14:55

Exactly what @thesnow said. I couldn't reconcile it. It's not putting the child first, no matter what people say. You are denying them their most basic right and taking away their mother, and buying humans is certainly the line for me.

Coyoacan · 14/12/2022 14:55

Theres been lots of threads on Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Nick Jonas and Priyanka Chopra, the Baldwin’s to name a few. Fuck all to do with sexuality and everything to do with buying babies and renting wombs being disgusting

And @antelopevalley is perfectly well aware of that fact.

TheYummyPatler · 14/12/2022 14:56

BeyondTheLetterOfTheLawTheLetter · 14/12/2022 14:45

Why can you not have a different opinion to them? And just disagree without turning it into a fight?

I disagree with surrogacy in 99.999% of situations, but I can discuss it with my family member without offending them. And they can put their side across without shouting at me or resorting to emotional blackmail. We agree on lots of things, and disagree on others, such is life 🤷🏼‍♀️

Honestly, if you can't have a difference of opinion, that is (IMO) more of a problem than whatever it is you disagree about

There are differences of opinion and then there are actions that mean I would
no longer want to be friendly with someone.

Buying a baby is one of those actions.

They can believe different things to me and have different opinions. But this isn’t merely belief or opinion; it’s setting out to buy a baby and the ‘services’ of a woman to enable that.

It’s a million miles from adoption or children in the care system.

And it is nothing to do with them
being gay men. The problems with commissioning and buying human life to order are not anything to do with some gay men being a part of the market for that.

RoseslnTheHospital · 14/12/2022 14:56

The egg being from a donor woman is more risky for the mother, as well as the additional risks for the woman donating eggs. I'm not sure how that makes anything better.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 14/12/2022 15:00

Research came out recently about the genetic link to the mother, from the baby, that stays within the body of the mother post birth. Its such an intrinsic, intimate link.

To think that a woman would be so financially in need to consider this, and that there are people who just think it's totally fine to support/do this baffles me.

AlexandraOrlov · 14/12/2022 15:01

I had no idea about this - will look into it now

OP posts:
antelopevalley · 14/12/2022 15:03

Coyoacan · 14/12/2022 14:55

Theres been lots of threads on Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Nick Jonas and Priyanka Chopra, the Baldwin’s to name a few. Fuck all to do with sexuality and everything to do with buying babies and renting wombs being disgusting

And @antelopevalley is perfectly well aware of that fact.

I am against surrogacy, I say it again. But what I see is post after post about gay couples.
Most surrogacy involves same-sex couples.
Don't dare accuse me of anything else when I am absolutely clear about my objections to baby buying. In real life I do not use the term surrogacy. It is designed to hide what is really happening. It is buying a baby. And it is always wrong.

antelopevalley · 14/12/2022 15:04

And there are good reasons that country after country has banned it. The countries people go to buy babies keeps changing as governments crack down on it or outlaw it altogether.

SmallPrawnEnergy · 14/12/2022 15:05

Lots of chatter about buying babies, which in the case of OPs dilemma is fine. But surrogacy in England isn’t for the exchange of money, so why is it ok for someone to donate a kidney or blood but not their eggs or womb?

TheYummyPatler · 14/12/2022 15:08

SmallPrawnEnergy · 14/12/2022 15:05

Lots of chatter about buying babies, which in the case of OPs dilemma is fine. But surrogacy in England isn’t for the exchange of money, so why is it ok for someone to donate a kidney or blood but not their eggs or womb?

Because that kidney is tissue. It’s not intended to produce a whole new human being.

It’s a big difference.

Twizbe · 14/12/2022 15:08

antelopevalley · 14/12/2022 14:24

Most surrogates are for opposite sex couples. I am against surrogacy. But people only seem to complain about gay couples using surrogates. Seems homophobic to me.

Nope. I complain about anyone using a surrogate.

There have been numerous threads on here about straight couples and single people using surrogates as well.

The day a Hollywood starlet becomes a surrogate for a poor woman is the day that I'll start thinking it is anything but exploitation of women

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