Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

They might be using a doner egg and a gestational surrogate.

One of them will be the baby's biological parent.

As for those saying they are putting the woman's life at risk;well by those same standards do you think your husbands/partners put your lives at risk when they had a baby with you?

Essentially people are saying gay men are not entitled to have a biological child of their own.

You're also assuming these women who are surrogates are stupid and allowing themselves to taken advantage of.

You can’t compare adoption or fostering by same-sex couples to surrogacy. I am completely for that, as well as scenarios where same-sex attracted individuals or couples come to some sort of shared parenting arrangement with someone of the opposite sex. There are many ethical ways to create a family unit with children, commissioning a child to immediately remove it from the only smells, taste, sounds and person they have known for nine months (and accepting the risk to the poorer woman whose body you’re exploiting) isn’t one of them.

OP I think this is one of those situations where you have to decide how important your convictions are to you. I don’t think you need to have it out with them, as clearly they are based in part of the world where this is completely acceptable. However I agree with others that by accepting their hospitality you would be completely hypocritical.

If you feel that strongly then don't visit - it's not fair on them if you turn up, as I don't think you'll be able to hide your opinion. it's their choice, and the choice of the surrogate mother. It's shown that babies do best with two parents. Why shouldn't they have the right to a child.

They might be using a doner egg and a gestational surrogate.

'Gestational Surrogate' horrific. Reducing a woman to a vessel.

As for those saying they are putting the woman's life at risk;well by those same standards do you think your husbands/partners put your lives at risk when they had a baby with you?

Yes, of course! Pregnancy is dangerous - I've had 2 EMCSes, either time could have been the end for me.

Essentially people are saying gay men are not entitled to have a biological child of their own.

Not at all. It's the buying of a baby that's wrong, commissioning one like a painting, and intentionally depriving that baby of it's mother that's wrong, not who the parents will end up being.

You're also assuming these women who are surrogates are stupid and allowing themselves to taken advantage of.

No, I'm suggesting that allowing people to commission and purchase humans is wrong, just like selling a kidney would be, but this time, a whole human. I think that there are some things people shouldn't be allowed to buy or sell (and lets not forget, if that baby was a child, then it would be a crime to sell them)

How do you feel about formula feeding? Surely that’s the same. A baby has no clue what’s going on for the first few months of its life and they want to provide it with love and happiness for its whole life.

All these people with such strong views on surrogacy! Have you ever been in a position that it was your only option to have a biological child?

They might be using a doner egg and a gestational surrogate. what's the point being made here?

One of them will be the baby's biological parent. Again, what's the point being made here?

As for those saying they are putting the woman's life at risk;well by those same standards do you think your husbands/partners put your lives at risk when they had a baby with you? yes, women are always at risk when going through pregnancy and birth.

Essentially people are saying gay men are not entitled to have a biological child of their own. No, they could enter into a co parenting situation with a woman, if they wanted to.

You're also assuming these women who are surrogates are stupid and allowing themselves to taken advantage of. In the US, with commercial surrogacy, yes women are being taken advantage of. No one is saying that they are stupid as a result.

The friendship would be over for me and I would tell them why.

None of your examples involve procuring a woman’s body to gestate a baby that will be removed from their mother at the moment of birth. It is inhuman and barbaric.
My beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with sex, race, religion as do many others who feel as I do.

Essentially people are saying gay men are not entitled to have a biological child of their own

Nobody is entitled to have a child of their own. At all.

Neither will automatically be a bio parent.

women carrying a child for surrogacy are at greater risk of complications

Nobody is entitled to become a biological parent

surrogates are allowing themselves to be taken advantage of. That’s the very definition of surrogacy

I’m all for making fostering or adoption available to same sex couples but I find it disgusting that they want to ‘rent’ an uterus so they can have a child. Tells you all about their disdain for women. I couldn’t be friends with people like that.

I don't think I could be friends with someone who used surrogacy as a way to have a family.

Buying human beings and renting women's bodies is wrong. There's a very good reason why surrogacy is banned in most countries

I believe that a child is luck, not entitlement. No-one has the right to a child because a child isn't something you own.

I also believe that paid surrogacy is a bad idea because it reduces a woman's body to an economic asset, which is dehumanising. Pregnancy is inherently dangerous, and something no-one should be forced to go through for money. However, I also believe in a woman's right to choose what she does with her own body.

I do not believe that the mother-child bond is sacred. I do worry about the traumatic effects on a child of being raised from birth by people its unfamiliar with, but surrogacy is not the only way that happens. Death, adoption, disinterested parent happy to hand childcare over to staff - even hospital policy of removing babies from the mother to group natal wards. It happens to lots of babies, to lots of reasons. It's not insurmountable. If the mother has agreed to be a surrogate, clearly she's not bonded to the child.

And I might be wrong about all of those things. I also believe that in a civilised society we need to be able to rub along with people who have fundamentally different belief systems to us. Religious tolerance requires people who really, honestly believe that other people's beliefs are offensive to God to keep schtum. Similarly, we as a society expect vegans to keep their values to themselves when they go to a restaurant instead of lecturing the other guests and the wait staff.

If this is a deal-breaker for you, that's okay. But if you want to salvage the friendship, focus on the positives - despite the ethics of its conception, this baby is clearly wanted, loved and valued, and your friends are going to surround it with care, affection and the best upbringing money can buy.

An acquaintance of mine has been a surrogate 4 times (once was unsuccessful). Twice for the same couple and the other 2 times were for different couples. She does traditional surrogacy where she uses her own egg.
She has 3 kids of her own and I just can't get my head around how she separates the children she's had for her and the ones she's had for other people.

She has said that she doesn't see them as her kids and has a distant auntie type role (visits them once a year, sends cards and gifts on birthdays & Christmas etc).

I have listened to her explain in the past but I can't engage in a conversation about it with her because I don't know how I feel.

I think I'd feel less conflicted if she wasn't the biological mother because it feels worse...

I don't disagree with surrogacy in theory but I don't understand how you can take emotion, biology and biological needs and desires out of the equation.

OP in your situation you can either be fake supportive or avoid it all together. The moment you voice disagreeing with any part of their plans your friendship will be over.

This is really difficult. If you go they are going to be excited to be with you and your daughter and are going to want to talk about their hopes for their own family. If you aren't going to be okay with that I don't think you should go.

I share your concerns btw, I think commercial surrogacy is unethical. But ultimately you sharing your feelings isn't going to change their actions and will cause bad feeling all round.

I could not continue to be friends with people who thought it was okay to rent a woman’s body and purchase a baby.

Honestly? Visit when the baby is a few months old and has had a chance to bond with their dads. Skip the newborn part where you’ll be noticing baby’s distress and attributing it to being taken from their mother.

Donor eggs increase the risk to the surrogate, as the baby is “foreign” genetic material and so vastly increases the amount of complications.

yes I do think my life is put at risk having a child. There is always that risk. But dh and I made the joint decision that having a baby was worth the risk. In the case of the surrogate they have all the risk but where’s the benefit? Money?

no one’s entitled to have a child.

no one is saying surrogates are stupid. But funny how you never see rich women doing it. These women are vulnerable because the need the money. It’s not much different to prostitution- if they didn’t need the money they wouldn’t sell their body.

It would be the end of the friendship for me. I couldn't sit and make friendly conversation.

Essentially people are saying gay men are not entitled to have a biological child of their own.

Two men cannot produce a biological child of their own. Whether by surrogacy or otherwise. They cannot produce a child at all without using a woman as a gestation and egg provision service.

It’s not homophobic to look at the biology involved. Nor is it to oppose the supposedly fluffy end of human trafficking.

The idea that anyone is entitled to a child is a problem.

I think if you’re good friends you should be able to say something, ideally early in the process so you can at least inform their thinking. It doesn’t have to be heavy and judgemental, could just be asking them how they will make sure the surrogate mother is doing it for the right reasons, do they think it’s difficult for the baby to be removed from its mother etc.

Breasts give comfort and breast milk.
Men can give comfort and formula milk.
I can’t understand such strong objection when there are so many appalling parents bringing children into the world.
Their baby will only know them as parents and if they are good ones, lucky child.

👏