Karen

[littlebilliie]

I am so sick of this term being used to belittle women. I definitely this this is misogynistic hate speech.

Middle aged women and older who had an opinion were always respected and listen to, now if a women of any age speaks out she is ridiculed.

I think we should call the Karen term out for what it is.

I agree with you.

Agreed, it’s just the latest fashionable way of insulting women. Just like all those that went before.

I hate it too. What I hate even more is women using it about other women - shows a real lack of intelligence and understanding!

I think it depends on your social circle, in mine women were always listened to and still are. Some of them are occasionally "Karens", but I think a lot of people are occasionally, I am sure we have all seen the Karen type making an issue of nothing, just as we have seen a man doing it, or know a Victor Meldrew type man.

Not everything you disagree with is hate speech. Often for a meme to take hold it needs an element of truth for people to latch onto. Indeed complaining that Karen is "misogynistic hate speech" is a pretty "Karen" thing to do.

@MatildaIThink

I think it depends on your social circle, in mine women were always listened to and still are. Some of them are occasionally "Karens", but I think a lot of people are occasionally, I am sure we have all seen the Karen type making an issue of nothing, just as we have seen a man doing it, or know a Victor Meldrew type man.

Not everything you disagree with is hate speech. Often for a meme to take hold it needs an element of truth for people to latch onto. Indeed complaining that Karen is "misogynistic hate speech" is a pretty "Karen" thing to do.

I will add that I do feel a bit sorry for people actually called Karen, just as I do for people called Alexa.

I really hate it too and sadly it seems to mostly be used by women 😞, the internalised misogyny and ageism is painfully obvious.

@Jng1

I hate it too. What I hate even more is women using it about other women - shows a real lack of intelligence and understanding!

This is exactly my thought.

It's just open sexism and ageism. I'm a proud Karen but as I always say on these threads the name itself isn't relevant. They mean Sarah, Tracy, Catherine, Joanne and Debbie and all the women now in middle age.

I can't stand it either! I would hate to be called Karen right now.

I can't believe some people still use it and think they are being funny/ original!!

I think it's pathetic, and usually end up being called a Karen for calling someone out for it on social media

@MatildaIThink

I think it depends on your social circle, in mine women were always listened to and still are. Some of them are occasionally "Karens", but I think a lot of people are occasionally, I am sure we have all seen the Karen type making an issue of nothing, just as we have seen a man doing it, or know a Victor Meldrew type man.

Not everything you disagree with is hate speech. Often for a meme to take hold it needs an element of truth for people to latch onto. Indeed complaining that Karen is "misogynistic hate speech" is a pretty "Karen" thing to do.

Erm did you just call me "Karen"?

I witnessed a group of men taking a woman down for making a reasonable comment. Using "Karen" was a great to belittle her voice.

You are part of the problem thanks for belittling my comments.

I absolutely hate it. The worst part, as already seen in this thread, is that if you do speak up about hating it then that apparently proves you are in fact a karen. Complete catch 22 to keep women quiet. Also I know lots of women and one man with that name and they are all lovely people.

I ALWAYS respond with this when I see it on line: karenismyname.org/renamer

ahh “Karen” - the great woman silencer. A single word to shut us all up. Those of you who use or excuse it- you know exactly what you are doing. We see through you.

Btw- for anyone who is confused- there is no such thing as a “Karen”. It doesn’t exist. It’s a made up bogey man to silence women. All women.

Completely agree OP

If you are using your perceived social status to make someone's (usually younger, less "educated", a different race) harder for very little reason you're a "karen". If you aren't, chill, it's not about you.

^ except, no.

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

If you are using your perceived social status to make someone's (usually younger, less "educated", a different race) harder for very little reason you're a "karen". If you aren't, chill, it's not about you.

Nah

I think it's very nasty but I'm grateful it's not such a big thing here in the UK as it seems to be in the States. That link is appalling, it seems really bad there.

The misogyny is undisguised.

Another very specific African-American term that has been picked up and misused to the point of being meaningless. Like 'woke' (now perjorative) and many others.

It did not start out as a term to use to dismiss women. It was about certain behaviours by white women (usually, but also men) with some status to browbeat and threaten black Americans out of doing their jobs or standing up for themselves.

Matilda think

It's most definitely a slur. Used against two protected characteristics.

Using racism as a comparison, the spectrum starts with prejudice through to discrimination and hostility (hate speech) all these have the impact of targeted behaviour. Whist a serious hate I accident could have long term affects on an individuals self-esteem, self worth etc. It is equally " the dripping of the tap" which is impactful on a person. Try entering your name into the link the other poster provided
Karenismyname.org/renamer

Hate speech is used to create " a demeaning and hostile enviroment" personally I think it ticks both boxes.

So, is the jury out on this one?

Is the term Karen misogynistic? and therefore hate speech?

little Billie a completely fair OP. Yes, it should be called out. The law commission has currently investigated making misogny a hate crime, if your interested.

Another very specific African-American term that has been picked up and misused to the point of being meaningless.

Accusing people of 'misuse' or incorrect use of colloquial language is what's meaningless. Language changes, and very quickly these days. Colloquial phrases mean what people commonly use them to mean - it's not really possible to gatekeep vocabulary. So 'Karen' is now not (or at least not only) a term for calling out racism, it's a sexist, ageist slur. So unless people want to be sexist and ageist, they shouldn't use it.

I don't even think it's even ageist now I think it's used on all women who have an opinion.

I think it's an interesting debate where perhaps younger women think
"it's doesn't apply to me as it's just for the older women", unfortunately we are all ageing and whatever age you are now someone will think you are "old" . Someone in their late 20s was referred to as "Karen" by some teenage girls on her run. This is as demeaning as all the other derogatory hateful language which is applied to women.

There was a thread calling for MNHQ to auto-ban 'Karen', which is frankly ridiculous. You could write a list of a gazillion words which are sexist and insulting - and another list of words which are insilting to all kinds of other groups. We can't ban them all, or it would get silly. Personally I'm happy to let these words stand - they are a good way of spotting people whose opinions aren't worth consideration.

I agree - I regularly see women on local FB pages being called Karens for making a perfectly legitimate comment (one complaining about kids egging her house was told 'calm down Karen' ).

It was also trotted out on another FB post about wolf whistling and catcalling, where women were called Karens for complaining this was demeaning/upsetting/ insulting. I had my own comment deleted for swearing (I used the word shit, mea culpa) but this kind of pervasive misogyny, have a field day!