The constant maintenance of womanhood

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Another thread about the pill got me thinking. Taking a pill every single day is tedious as well as a health issue.

But there are so many things women are supposed to do to 'maintain'.

Health is the pill as the obvious one. I know biology is a bastard so smears too. And breast exams.

Body. Waxing or trimming, hair being coloured and styled, face free of random hair.

Life. Wife work and house work and presents and school and appointments. Occasional DIY isn't like that.

I don't do 70% of the above BTW but I know women who do. And I know men would argue shaving but beards are now everywhere. A woman's work is never done I suppose.

And I think the body stuff is actually regressing for women. With more expectations of perfection requiring enormous cost and commitment. And it's worse for certain women. The expectations on black women and older women, plus teens is immense!

@NiceGerbil

' It's still perfectly possible to completely eschew fitness/personal grooming etc and date a fat neckbeard instead'

Eh?

What is a neckbeard?

Are you saying that a beautiful woman with a great figure is rendered unattractive to men if she doesn't do 'fitness' (structured exercise?).. And ignores ALL grooming is it? While the threads about makeup etc not washing!

So I think you're saying to paraphrase.

That fat smelly women will have trouble pulling? Much less trouble than fat smelly men though, surely? A difference that enrages incel types ..

And taking in context of thread. You think a beautiful young woman with a lovely figure (plenty young women have without doing formal exercise). Who doesn't wear makeup or shaves legs etc. Will have trouble pulling? Come off it!

And assuming fat neckbeard means v unattractive. And maybe smells etc.If he's got lots of money. Then he will still have a host of beautiful women trying to share him. Right?

I think you are taking my points too literally and hanging on every word. The main point is that women don't have to do all these beauty routines. They do it to look attractive to men. An alternative option is to not bother and just lower one's standards. But most don't want to do that.

There are endless discussions online moaning about the perception of fat people, which to me indicates that even a lot of people who don't want to spend their life in the gym still care about the societal perception of their attractiveness. Very few women say 'fuck it' and genuinely don't care. Most I've encountered are either older or feminists, and the latter still seem to devote a lot of time and effort to moaning about it.

Amy's speech was from a modern scriptwriter not the original author.

Lots of the stuff mentioned here as the additional maintenance of being a woman is based on some genderised (is that a word?) ideas of what a woman is.

Let me share my additional maintenance. I generally bring wet wipes with me in my bag when I'm out as since my third degree tear during childbirth things leak... I'm not talking urine. Needless to say, since childbirth I have become very gender critical...all this talk of needing to wear make up and shave legs... that's not what a woman is.

Kay I feel like you do this quite a lot-

Write a comment which contains obviously questionable points.

People take the time to reply.

If and when the obviously questionable bits are challenged.

Rather than responding to discuss them. You say something like. You've taken what I wrote too literally or similar.

I mean all anyone can do it read what people write. If this keeps happening maybe consider wording things more specifically, we can't be expected to have insight into what you really meant. How to 'take' your posts.

Then you just move the goalposts massively.

It's very frustrating tbh.

since childbirth I have become very gender critical.

A very common affliction I feel. I was always a feminist but having a child definitely made me shift radical!

Maintaining a good BMI is another one.

Yes I'd be in the healthy weight zone at a size 14 but let's face it, people (mostly men) are kinder when I'm a 10.

Hair removal has been the bane of my existence. I know that sounds dramatic, but I’ve really suffered with rashes, ingrown hair and terribly course regrowth. I’ve literally spend thousands on waxing, shaving, epilating and finally an IPL machine.

I wish I could not give a shit but I’m so indoctrinated into believing that I would be a pariah and my husband would be disgusted by me if I just stopped. I hope society progresses beyond this way of thinking before my daughter grows up. It’s one of the things involved in the current body positive movement that I really can get on board with. It really is a F. U to the patriarchy.

I remember a GP when I was younger who examined me and I noticed she had armpit hair. Not just ‘forgot to shave’ armpit hair, proper hair! And I was so shocked I never forgot it. But I’ve assessed why that was and how wrong it was and now I think how bloody brilliant it was and how upside down the world is for a woman with normal body hair to be seen as rebellious and ‘shocking’. To think anything about it at all. It’s just mental.

Not a pain for all women. I like looking natural but groomed. I don't give a toss what anyone else thinks. I enjoy taking pride in my appearance.

She's not saying we shouldn't do those things. They're part of a cumulative compare and contrast versus men.

I don't moisturise, use makeup etc. I wash my face in the shower with shower gel. It doesn't have to be time consuming or expensive.

@NiceGerbil

Kay I feel like you do this quite a lot-

Write a comment which contains obviously questionable points.

People take the time to reply.

If and when the obviously questionable bits are challenged.

Rather than responding to discuss them. You say something like. You've taken what I wrote too literally or similar.

I mean all anyone can do it read what people write. If this keeps happening maybe consider wording things more specifically, we can't be expected to have insight into what you really meant. How to 'take' your posts.

Then you just move the goalposts massively.

It's very frustrating tbh.

But on the other hand you ask a million detailed questions in one reply, demanding that I justify my views to you. Which quite frankly I can't be arsed too because it's always the same discussion with these types of topics.

What on the feminism board?

Who'd have thought it!!

Lol

@AutumnInBustletown

Lots of the stuff mentioned here as the additional maintenance of being a woman is based on some genderised (is that a word?) ideas of what a woman is.

Let me share my additional maintenance. I generally bring wet wipes with me in my bag when I'm out as since my third degree tear during childbirth things leak... I'm not talking urine. Needless to say, since childbirth I have become very gender critical...all this talk of needing to wear make up and shave legs... that's not what a woman is.

Similar here. The injuries made me think F this shit - I’m not inflicting unnecessary pain on myself, especially not succumbing to this stupid man-pleasing trend to get every single pubic hair removed when I have suffered enough indignity and pain downstairs if you see what I mean.

Usually it seems that the women who do all this stuff are looking for a 'well groomed' man too. Love Island types who wax the back/crack/sack etc and shave their chest to show off the muscles they gained from countless hours in the gym.

It's absolutely real ! Expectations on women are huge. It is expected to be hard worker, great mum, a wife that looks after herself, etc. Men don't have this pressure

I don't try to meet expectations. I have grey hair, I don't wear make up or use fancy products. I shave because I like having smooth skin - it's not often seen by others.

If you don't agree with them, don't do them!

I agree. I shave the bits I do because I want to, a quick wash and moisturiser applied and I'm done for the day. I've hardly ever worn make-up, never worn heels and wear what I want to. I'm certainly no oil painting, but I haven't seen any children running from me in fear, and most of my life people have thought I'm 10 years younger than I am. Why women feel they need to conform to expectations is something I will never understand, but still they keep on doing it. Incidentally I'm an "older woman" and don't feel the weight of any expectations.

@zinky

It's absolutely real ! Expectations on women are huge. It is expected to be hard worker, great mum, a wife that looks after herself, etc. Men don't have this pressure

You don't think all the men who are the main earner face this pressure?

Taking a pill every single day is tedious

Oh you poor dear- imagine having to make that terrible effort. That is one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on MN.

For 40 or 50 years... Pill then hormones if you do those.

Yes it is tedious. Remembering to take with on work trips, hols. With pill worry if you miss. Going to the doc so often.

Tedious is fitting I'd say.

@NiceGerbil

For 40 or 50 years... Pill then hormones if you do those.

Yes it is tedious. Remembering to take with on work trips, hols. With pill worry if you miss. Going to the doc so often.

Tedious is fitting I'd say.

Taking a pill for 40 or 50 years?

Even if that were possible it's still a ridiculous comment.

Are women so infantile that the effort of remembering to take their pills with them is beyond them?

I'm sorry @NiceGerbil but any one who has to complain of the "tedium" of taking a pill each day has a very charmed life
. Women with clinical depression, asthma, diabetes, HIV and a multitude of other long term conditions also have to take medication each day.

Coils/ implants and injections are there for those who may forget.

I think it is quite insulting to those undergoing complex treatment for long term health conditions e.g insulin injections, dialysis, Chemotherapy etc to talk about the "tedium," of taking a pill each day.

The fact is , hormonal contraception is a great thing for a lot of women. A male pill/ injection or equivalent would put a lot of women at risk. Statistically the pill / injection/ implant/ coil keep women a lot safer from unwanted pregnancy than condoms etc

I understand from your previous posts you purport to work with vulnerable adults, and want to know whether you pass on these views r e contraception and smear tests to them ??

'Purports'? What did I say that was so shocking about abortion?

I'm not saying don't do them, I do. I'm saying that the burden of contraception usually falls on women, often to the detriment of time, health, money if you're not in the UK, responsibility.

I find it strange that the very mild term tedious is being reacted to so strongly!

Yes lots of things are tedious. Charmed life

And what is this even if that were possible comment? I don't understand.

And FFS chemo, insulin dependent diabetes the testament is more than tedious fgs. Who the hell says chemo is 'tedious'?

Crikey.

I think maybe some don't understand what 'tedious' means do they.

How prevalent is hiv in women in the UK? That's another strange comment. It's a disaster for women in parts of the world. Why use that example? Is treatment freely available to all those women? Just out of interest to poster who raised it.

These posts get so TEDIOUS.

they really do.

My dad says doing the washing up is tedious. MY GOD what a spoilt first world snowflake arsehole eh!