The constant maintenance of womanhood

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Another thread about the pill got me thinking. Taking a pill every single day is tedious as well as a health issue.

But there are so many things women are supposed to do to 'maintain'.

Health is the pill as the obvious one. I know biology is a bastard so smears too. And breast exams.

Body. Waxing or trimming, hair being coloured and styled, face free of random hair.

Life. Wife work and house work and presents and school and appointments. Occasional DIY isn't like that.

I don't do 70% of the above BTW but I know women who do. And I know men would argue shaving but beards are now everywhere. A woman's work is never done I suppose.

And I think the body stuff is actually regressing for women. With more expectations of perfection requiring enormous cost and commitment. And it's worse for certain women. The expectations on black women and older women, plus teens is immense!

What has a lack of free healhcare in other countries got to do with the expectations on women in the UK?

Contraception, often in the form of a daily pill or something else hormonal (which has shit side effects for a lot of women) is something that is mainly expected to be down to the woman. And yes there's an argument for women benefitting most from that on account of it being women who get pregnant, but men could take some responsibility. For example. My brother and his wife do not want any more children at all. Ever. He refuses to get the snip. Apparently its emasculating. But he's perfectly happy for his wife to fuck up her hormones with the pill. Or have the more major female sterilisation surgery.

Surely that was the point being made about the pill? And didn't they develop a male pill but decided the side effects were too much for the poor men to cope with. Yet women are expected to put up and shut up.

Oh and as a woman who takes various medications daily I agree that its tedious having to do so. Not the pill, other stuff. But I don't think it's offensive to compare them.

It's fine. I give up. I fold, in terms of cards.

Even a woman saying taking a tablet every day is tedious. Is challenged. 40- 50 years. If that were possible!

Yes it's.... Not usual.

40 years? I mean. Obviously. Just. Normal.

But yeah. I give up. Open it up. All over the world. Fuck this playing that women/ girl/ female ever stood a chance.

Well done. I concede.

@NiceGerbil what on earth are you on about?

I agree the pill is a tedious burden - it also gave me aural migraines so I’m now banned by my doctor from taking any type of hormonal contraceptives. It’s not easy and freeing for everyone. It gave me a non-stop six month period. If I have sex with a man it’s condoms or no sex.

Luckily, I’m bisexual so I have the privilege of choosing not to date men anymore because frankly I’m sick of their shit. Their obliviousness to the insidious sexism that still runs through society and expects women to look, behave, think a certain way, the privilege of never being affected by stupid, outdated expectations.

I’ve never felt more free or in tune with myself since I started shaving my head (and stopped shaving my armpits) and stopped wearing makeup. I know some people will judge me and make assumptions about me for how I look - I just don’t care. It’s interesting how some women find it easy to opt out of the expectations, while others might recognise everything that’s wrong, but can’t stop conforming. Of course the problem is the patriarchy itself. I just don’t see how to overcome it apart from a radical overhaul of the kind of messages given to men in society, which would take decades of alteration to our culture

My issue with the moaning about the "tedium" of having to remember about having to take a pill each day is that it is another example of feminists desperately scrabbling for yet something else to complain about.

Yet another example of the sheer negativity of a certain type of feminism- there's nothing which can't be manipulated into furthering the cause of it's so hard being a woman. I suppose it ties into the thread about why would a woman not call herself a feminist- here's a perfect example of why not.

Even a woman saying taking a tablet every day is tedious. Is challenged. 40- 50 years. If that were possible!

40 years? I mean. Obviously. Just. Normal

What are you on about? Nobody takes contraceptive pills for 40-50 years.

@KimikosNightmare

My issue with the moaning about the "tedium" of having to remember about having to take a pill each day is that it is another example of feminists desperately scrabbling for yet something else to complain about.

Yet another example of the sheer negativity of a certain type of feminism- there's nothing which can't be manipulated into furthering the cause of it's so hard being a woman. I suppose it ties into the thread about why would a woman not call herself a feminist- here's a perfect example of why not.

Indeed. I think many would struggle with the life of a bloke! Working till 65 pretty much without exception - no going permanently part time after your first child at 30.

And throughout those 45 years of working you're unlikely to ever get more than a fortnight away from the office at a time. I'm pretty jealous of my mates who work part time and have husbands with decent jobs. Feminists don't tend to like it when women make these choices but it's no doubt a privileged existence, especially if you weren't career minded in the first place and didn't have a lot to lose.

I think many would struggle with the life of a bloke! Working till 65 pretty much without exception - no going permanently part time after your first child at 30

cor blimey

that's not a consequence free decision you know.

KayKayWat - who goes “part time after 30”?! I was a full time hospital doctor, (widowed with two children) up to my retirement.
And no woman has to take oral contraception if she doesn’t want to. I stopped it at 22, due to side effects. DH and I used condoms instead.
I am horrified and fascinated by some of the women on this thread, whose ideas seem stuck in the 1800s - that women need to preen and crimp to be beautiful, in order to attract a wealthy man.
As a 70’s radfem, I regard that as “single client” prostitution.
As an anaesthetist, I often had to get women patients to remove make up for safety reasons, and it was sad how many of them said they never dared be seen in public without it. Without exception, they all looked far nicer without it.

Indeed. I think many would struggle with the life of a bloke! Working till 65 pretty much without exception - no going permanently part time after your first child at 30.

Goodness me. Don't complain, however lighthearted or trivial, about your lives women. Men have it just as hard/harder. Just put up and shut up. Ffs.

Poor poor menz

The hair removal, make up, skin-care and, clothing + hair-styling societal expectations on women are way higher than for men, and have been for many decades now.

The financial and time costs of going along with that are incredible over a lifetime.

You can opt out of any of them, but your definitely judged for that.

Personally, I’ve always chosen to stuff expectations and be hairy and un-made-up. It’s saved me thousands of £.

But it’s also excluded me from acceptance in a lot of social groups, so it’s not without consequence.

I still think I’m a lucky one, because at least I felt I had a choice and could act on it.

Indeed. I think many would struggle with the life of a bloke! Working till 65 pretty much without exception - no going permanently part time after your first child at 30.

Had I done that, you'd have a small point. Not having done that, you don't really. FIL retired in his 50s and lives the life of riley. I will probably work into my 60s and later than DH.

@Alektopteryx

Poor poor menz

That really isn't helpful if one is trying to produce a case for why shouldn't women be feminists.

@KimikosNightmare, yes but if people are discussing the plight of women it does not good to compare them to another group. It's like people discussing the plight of disabled people in the UK and someone coming along saying children in a war torn country have it worse. The comparison does not negate the first group's needs.

That really isn't helpful if one is trying to produce a case for why shouldn't women be feminists.

Well I'm not trying to make a case for why shouldn't women be feminists I don't know why you think I'd care whether you think it's helpful or not. Nor do I know why posters seem to think we should fret about what a hard life men have on a thread in a feminism topic, albeit feminist chat. IMO it's utterly inappropriate to suggest that women who are sharing and discussing their own experiences should have to consider other groups while doing so. Women do enough thinking of others and putting themselves last. Feminism should not be telling them to do so.

Should have said a case for why woman should be feminists. I wasn't asking you to "fret" about men. I hadn't actually paid much attention to the derailment. "Menz" is just such a silly "gotcha"

Looks like I touched a nerve!

Those saying there are consequences to marrying a rich men and giving up your job are right. You get to drive a Range Rover and live a life of comfort.

As I said, women who aren't career focused don't have so much to lose. The narrative on here is usurped by white middle class feminists who assume that one must make great sacrifices in stopping working, but this is less so if you work in a job with little career progression.

My mate didn't sacrifice much. She was a beautician and is now pretty much a lady of leisure with a lovely husband who genuinely adores her and also happens to own a financial consultancy. In fact, I'd probably say she has him wrapped around her little finger a bit!

She still does beauty stuff for a lot of mates and could easily go back to that if she needed, with an expanded customer base compared to before as she knows loads of rich pampered women now. Although with several expensive properties now as marital assets and a lot of shares in her own name I reckon she'd walk away pretty comfortable.

Feminists seem to despise women like her but no doubt she is experiencing one of the key female privileges. I sometimes wonder if a lot of other women are just getting the green eyed monster tbh. Perhaps the knight in shining armour kept galloping on past them and kicked a bit of grass up their noses as he went! 🤭

Well I'm not middle class and don't have a career and do work part time and have since my first child was born so in all honesty I think you're just talking bollocks, KayKayWat.

I refer you to my above point about how most men work till 65 and many women go part time after their first child. Easy to say their life is easier when you're not the one behind the desk for all those extra decades.

My DH is part time too 🤡

So neither you nor your husband work full time, yet here you are on a thread lamenting how hard life as a woman is?

Have you read my posts?

I read the one that said 'poor poor menz'. That was enough.

I always felt incredibly lucky that I was the one that stayed home with the children, I suppose if DH had wanted to do so then we could have shared leave.
Ours is a symbiotic existence though, he is professionally senior to me now and earns more money but my career is picking up now after promotion, I will probably retire earlier because I want to do voluntary work at some point. He does cooking, shopping, cars, pays bills, DIY etc. I do most of the emotional work around the DC, family etc, the washing and any housework that escapes the cleaners.
I do know how privileged I am.. but it can work, on MN I think you can easily miss that point.

Feminists seem to despise women like her but no doubt she is experiencing one of the key female privileges

The privilege to be kept for as long as the man wants to? I hope that she's squirrelling away a nest egg for if the worst happens, because that's the deal she's making - which she is totally free to do, but it's a massive, massive personal risk.

My ex would have loved it if I gave up work to look after him, but thank god I didn't so when I discovered what he'd been getting up to, I could tell him to get knotted without worrying about how to keep a roof over my head.