The constant maintenance of womanhood

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Another thread about the pill got me thinking. Taking a pill every single day is tedious as well as a health issue.

But there are so many things women are supposed to do to 'maintain'.

Health is the pill as the obvious one. I know biology is a bastard so smears too. And breast exams.

Body. Waxing or trimming, hair being coloured and styled, face free of random hair.

Life. Wife work and house work and presents and school and appointments. Occasional DIY isn't like that.

I don't do 70% of the above BTW but I know women who do. And I know men would argue shaving but beards are now everywhere. A woman's work is never done I suppose.

And I think the body stuff is actually regressing for women. With more expectations of perfection requiring enormous cost and commitment. And it's worse for certain women. The expectations on black women and older women, plus teens is immense!

Treatment not testament!

@nicegerbil. No one is suggesting U.K women are as likely to be living with HIV as they are taking the contraceptive pill. It was merely, ( like asthma and type one diabetes and no doubt thousands of other conditions,) an example of women who have to take medication each day. I think the "tedium," of taking the pill falls behind a lot of these groups.

But the pill is also very freeing for women. Being in total control of their own fertility. Who wouldn't want that over relying on a male partner to take the pill.

I think overall the pill , ,( whilst not perfect), has liberated a lot of women and don't think we should be teaching young girls it is tedious etc. I'm sorry but when you think of women in developing countries who have no access to reliable contraception, it does come over a bit first world snowflake to complain of the tedium of taking it.

And in any case, those who do find taking a pill tedious can access contraception injections, implants and coils free of charge from their GP practice.

I found having to change the hormonal make up of my body, to remember to take, reorder, and jump through the hoops (age, weight, BP) of being suitable for prescription of the pill to be a pain in the arse from the age of 14 till I got an emergency hysterectomy in my thirties. It is true that arrangements for contraception usually fall squarely on the shoulders of women because we are the sex affected by pregnancy and it is a tedious burden. Of course it's not as much of a burden as an unwanted pregnancy would be, but a burden nonetheless.

Trying 7 different pills only for them to fuck up my weight, skin, moods, sex drive, sleep, periods etc etc to finally deciding to give up only to have GP try and push yet ANOTHER pill on me was pretty tedious.

But I was unlucky.

Yes @MrsTerryPratchett I agree with you that there is immense societal pressure on women. I prefer to call it pressure to perform feminity rather than pressure to maintain womanhood though.

As a girl/young woman, there were several career choices I could have made. And I did consciously choose a male dominated scientific career field which had a professional standard for women which preferred a low maintenance look literally because I did not want to opt in but I also did not want to be disadvantaged by refusing to perform feminity.

Makeup, heels, skirts, hair styling, perfume and such get you taken less seriously as a professional scientist than flats, conservative tops, trousers. The “nerd” look you see on TV is the one society expects of a good scientist. The only women I work with who do wear heels, skirts, makeup, hair, etc are the office secretaries/admin.

I suppose it is in a way just as bad? Because I am sure some women would want to be very feminine, but feel they can’t because our career field values that brainy look over the decorative look?

think it is quite insulting to those undergoing complex treatment for long term health conditions e.g insulin injections, dialysis, Chemotherapy etc to talk about the "tedium," of taking a pill each day.
Well, I've had chemo. I also found the contraceptive pill tedious (not the pill itself but all the check up appointments) so gave it up. Chemo was certainly challenging but less easy to just drop. So I'm not insulted, personally. 🤷‍♀️

I don't do much that a bloke wouldn't do! I wash and moisturise my face because it feels better.

I have one hair under my chin every few months that I really hate and I do get rid of it. Apart from that I have regular haircuts but I don't "style" my hair and I don't care about covering my grey hairs.

Don't wear heels, ever. Don't diet. Don't wear make up. I do have an aesthetic for clothes but it's definitely not "sexy" or based around attracting men.

I wince when I see women spending hours and £££ on "looking good" attempting to pander to the patriarchy. I hate the patriarchy with a vengeance and I'm sick of living in a society that blames women for male violence.
Women being injected with date rape drugs at a club? Be more careful women - WTF? Howabout searching men before they enter the club and if they have a hypodermic syringe on them they are severely punished.

Makeup, heels, skirts, hair styling, perfume and such get you taken less seriously

I would be so sad if wearing perfume damaged my career prospects! I'd also be really sad if for some reason I was forced to dress in a stereotypically 'male' way (everything blue or brown, limited accessories).

I assume a lot of men feel like me and would love to wear perfume and have 25 pairs of brightly coloured shoes. i think the world would be a much happier place if it was 'normal' for them to do that

and obvs vice versa

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg
Exactly, and I’m sure you and many women like you who enjoy and prefer some of the stereotypically considered feminine things are also great scientific minds. You shouldn’t be disadvantaged for that, but the reality is that you would be. Just like if I were an aspiring TV presenter, or actress, I’d have probably never lasted long in front of a camera because I hate make up and doing my hair, plus the “sexy” clothes they dress them in.

In general it is sad that there are societal pressures for women to look, dress, groom a certain way for any job...whatever the look is.

You don’t have to take the pill though? Make the bloke use condoms and if he refuses, no sex. I took the pill once for six months and hated it. It made me fat and depressed. So I won’t take it. Are people shagging constantly or something?!

@Babdoc

StillWeRise, I was at high school and uni in the 70s. Any woman plastered in make up, fake nails, fake tan etc would have been regarded as a “cheap tart”, and probably a professional one! The Womens Lib movement of those days was against shaving body hair. I vaguely recall a magazine article saying that hairy armpits were your “powder puffs, announcing your presence with a gentle waft of pheromones!” The whole emphasis was different then. Feminism meant rejecting the male agenda, not “empowering” yourself with sex work and pandering to men’s idea of feminine beauty. Hence the storming of the Miss World contest. I despair when I look at today’s young women, wasting hours preening for Instagram pics, and queuing up to sell out their rights to violent TRAs.

Suggesting these women are 'cheap tarts' isn't very empowering though is it?!

All these silly girls who aren't as good at being a woman as me

@BloomingTrees

I agree and have made a conscious decision to reject all that. I'm lucky in that I had a mother who never wore make-up and only used the cheapest moisturiser, who told me I didn't need anything else as we had natural good looks in our family ! I've never waxed and can't walk in high heals. My DH has seen me precisely once wearing make-up and that was for our wedding when I thought I should make a bit of an effort for the photos.

I've also been lucky with my easy to manage hair. I always thought it was boring when younger but it's straight and dries nicely on it's own if cut well.

I do like occasionally 'dressing up' to go out and looking good so it's contradictory.

But yes, I don't like the judging of women in the public eye's appearance instead of focusing on how they do their jobs.

My DM didn't/doesn't wear make up or shave but never made me feel shitty for wanting to it myself.

It all seems a bit 'I am a better woman than you' to me

yes, I think people should be careful about seeing rejecting dressing in stereotypically feminine ways as a virtue.

enjoying wearing make up says precisely zero about you as a person

'Exactly, and I’m sure you and many women like you who enjoy and prefer some of the stereotypically considered feminine things are also great scientific minds. You shouldn’t be disadvantaged for that, but the reality is that you would be. '

Hedy lamarr anyone

Fuxake.

No you don't have to take the pill or hrt.

Obviously.

I still don't get the if it were even possible comment about 40-50 years daily tablets of hormones thing though.

IF it were possible?

@NiceGerbil do you get my point about women in developing countries would give their right arm for the free, reliable contraception we have access to via the NHS ?

You think that a woman who has been a feminist since before she knew the word. Since tiny.

Doesn't know or care about the situation of women elsewhere in the world.

Ok well whatever.

The point was that finding taking medication every day in pill form tedious.

Is... What was said.

Compared to chemotherapy. HIV. Tedious?

And a comment about 40/ 50 years on daily hormone tabs. IF that could happen.

Why IF?

You can do better surely.

[quote Judygiraffe]@NiceGerbil do you get my point about women in developing countries would give their right arm for the free, reliable contraception we have access to via the NHS ?[/quote]
I assume you're aware that amputation (cutting off not in a hosp situation) is still carried out in some places?

Just checking.

do you get my point about women in developing countries would give their right arm for the free, reliable contraception we have access to via the NHS ?

I seem to spend my entire time on MN being told that things are worse somewhere. Worse in Afghanistan, more in countries in Africa, worse somewhere else. That's not my bar. Better than a country with no working healthcare system isn't my bar.

How about a world that had prioritised a male implant? Or OMG prioritised the idea that PIV isn't the only way? Or fully reversible male sterilisation? Any one of a number of things I think would be possible if women's health was actually top of the pile.

Oh though it's fun!

Goalposts.. >>>>>>> wow they move SO FAST!

But in the end.

Tonight I just feel like.

I'm tired. You win.

Make it all mixed sex.

Fuck it. We always look lose. I'm tired.

Ok fine.

All over the world. You win.

Gender not sex.

India, Brazil, Poland, UK, Russia. Everywhere. The prisons in Iran. The camps in China. Etc etc etc. Taliban. Yeah. It's done. Whatever.

Congratulations.

Any space for female people globally. Do it. Fine.

You know what you want.

HAPPY? Fucking golden. Nice one.

I am so sorry that other women and girls are a bit unsure.

They'll come around in time. Don't worry. History .. it's gonna work out.

Just wait. :)

And so you can stop saying. HIV this and diabetes that etc.

Cluelessly.

You want women to give up. Ok. I give up. Unisex changing with kids. With women. Compete in sports. Have our words.

I have two daughters.

The 3 of us. Not women. Girls. Female.

Just cunts.

Well you know what. I've heard that all my life. Hole. Gash. Cunt. Tits. Arse. Etc...

Cool.

You happy? Tell me you're happy.

DDs are 12 and 14. Fucking out of date. Sorry. Apologies.

I have gestated two infants. Both were labelled as likely menstruators at birth. But who knows. I fed them fluids from my body.

I give in. Have the win. Enjoy.

@Livpool Did you deliberately misread @Babdoc and @BloomingTrees post?

OR do you have a chip on your shoulder?

@NiceGerbil. I said taking a contraceptive pill each day is not a "tedious burden," to most women. How on earth does that mean I want men to change with children in mixed changing rooms ?