Worrying Texas state abortion laws

[shakeitoffshakeacocktail]

I will try and link the article, they are trying to pass a law in Texas that would make anyone able to sue a person or business that is helping people have abortions.

The laws are already super strict in the state and this law somehow also means legal costs would go to the defendant if the case was won

I have been following the abortion laws in America for some years, there was a terrible story where a woman was arrested for endangering her fetus/ baby's life when she was shot (by another woman) in a parking lot, she lost her unborn baby and was SHE (mother) was arrested.

Sorry if I am not as eloquent as others on this topic but it seems so 'handmaidens tale' prequel in the US and it chills me.

I have never understood how a book (bible) and their faith can give them such superiority over others. I know there has been this issue across the centuries but they are such zealots and believe the words in the bible in such a literal sense.

Is it all a cover for power and a worry about birth rates? They want to keep the status quo and an almost Puritan society?

Why must old white men hold such power over all

I hate reading that giving birth is what weekend bodies are meant to do. It trivialises/ invisibilises the pain, risk of injury, long term damage and risk of death.

It's the view of the sort of people who say pregnancy isn't an illness why should a pregnant woman be given a seat on the tube.

The people who believe that personhood begins at the moment of conception often strangely seem to have little interest in the already born grown person who is pregnant. Including any concern for their physical or psychological health. And the impact on any existing children.

Surely they would also be pouring their time and attention into cause/ prevention of miscarriage but I don't seem to see that.

Strange. Almost as if it's about something else really.

I agree. If women's bodies 'were meant to give birth' you wouldn't see such insane levels of maternal mortality in societies without modern medicine.

@KimikosNightmare I DO understand your point. For anti-abortion people, life begins at conception and abortion is murder. So they are against abortion. I would never tell a woman she must accept abortion. I think a woman can be a feminist while still personally opposing abortion.

But it's not okay for that woman to impose her beliefs on me. Even if she thinks it's murder, that is not a universal belief. You don't get to impose your ethical belief on the rest of society, if most people do not agree with you.

For a woman to be okay with banning abortion for everyone, she must have internalised the idea that it's okay to deprive women of a fundamental right, that women do not have full autonomy over their own bodies. That is the essence of patriarchy.

She might say, I don't want to deprive women of their rights, I just want to save the unborn! No doubt that's what she believes. But the consequence of her crusade is that woman are oppressed, that is just a fact.

In the US perhaps? As I mentioned more women than men want to make UK abortion law more restrictive.

Do we have a "patriarchal religious culture" here?

I was thinking of Ireland, NI and the republic. The grip of religious dogmas (catholic and Protestant) has loosened, and the bans have gone.
The point is there seems to be a strong correlation between religious cultures and the suppression of women's rights. Why do people with more or less secular viewpoints tend to see things differently on this matter. Many of the same people (not all, of course)who assert their objection to abortion is all about preserving human life will also have other 'socially conservative' attitudes, often around how and with whom other people have sex, and/or restrictive ideas on women's roles in society.

Your description of ‘reality’ (‘convenient’,’child’) isn’t neutral or objective, KimikosNightmare.

Kimikosnightmate, I actually do not buy that people seriously believe an abortion at 12 weeks is murder. If they thought so, they‘d give full blown funerals for embryos, which neither catholics nor evangelicals nor any other Christians do. They would not imprison pregnant women, cause how can you imprison an innocent person. They would clamour for life insurances for embryos starting with heartbeat…. of course they don‘t do all that because they understand very well that an embryo is not a person and its Development into a human is very uncertain even in the absence of any medical Intervention. Oh the hypocrisy.

Actually a few US states have passed laws requiring women to decide whether the aborted fetus will be buried or cremated (only for abortions, not miscarriages). It's pretty sickening, just trying to punish women for their decision.

www.npr.org/2020/12/04/943249413/ohio-passes-bill-requiring-fetal-abortion-remains-to-be-buried-or-cremated

These legal tricks are cynical but I do believe a lot of anti abortion people genuinely think it's murder, just like hardcore animal rights people think eating meat is murder.

Religion is the excuse not the reason.

And always has been.

Male supremacy came first. Along with this paranoia about paternity which is the root cause of a massive massive amount of the horrific things done to women and girls through history and now. To a greater or (much) lesser extent all over the world.

Religion well the abrahamic ones anyway reflect those views

Religion is the symptom not the cause.

@NiceGerbil

Religion is the excuse not the reason.

And always has been.

Male supremacy came first. Along with this paranoia about paternity which is the root cause of a massive massive amount of the horrific things done to women and girls through history and now. To a greater or (much) lesser extent all over the world.

Religion well the abrahamic ones anyway reflect those views

Religion is the symptom not the cause.

Yes... though it can be a control mechanism not a passive symptom.

If you know people in Texas you would probably have noticed that the vast majority of individuals that want abortion banned are women.

It is all based on religious matters, or at least they want to make it look like that and is the epitome of hypocrisy unless god is so god it has decided to bless Texas with no Down syndrome cases or intrafallopian pregnancies.

I find that very hard to believe.

Do you have any stats from a decently put together survey or similar.

Men run things. In Texas in USA here everywhere. Politicians lawmakers etc etc are predominantly male.

The idea that men on the whole don't want this. That it's mainly women pushing it. Seriously?

Yes plenty of women women are anti abortion. The more patriarchal the culture the more women support things like this. Women are people and have their own views thoughts etc

But that this is driven by women and men rather than doing what they think are going yup ok let's listen to women.. interesting theory!

What about the states where child marriage is legal? Like with restrictive abortion laws it seems to be mainly men in favour when it comes to where the power lies. Is it actually women pushing for that as well?

Oh for sure Errol passive is the last word for it!

Totally a mechanism of control.

I have a real issue with this constant diversion from the under the surface stuff, root cause etc.

Away from men.

And onto women.

The constant interjection that when it comes to issues for women and girls. Hold on. Women do this! Women can be nasty! Women bully oppress etc other women!

Yes yes I mean what the idea is that posters don't know that. Women murder. Women pimp. Women kill their children. Women perform fgm. Women can be generally horrible.

No one really believes that anyone thinks women can do no wrong, surely.

On this topic.

In countries/ areas where abortion is restricted, under attack, pretty much banned...

What do they overwhelmingly have in common? That usually is the stated reason or source of those views?

Religion.

Which religion?
Flavours of Christianity with the RC church being globally the main one by far.

Who is in charge in the RC church?
Well that's blokes obv.

What else in the recent past or now do they believe?
Aids/ hiv back in the day pushed not using condoms in plenty of countries around the world causing untold preventable infections in a global pandemic.
Homosexuality is a sin.
Sex outside marriage is a sin.
Sex except for purpose of reproduction.. (is that still a sin?).
Found out recently the root of anti vaxx as well which made sense.

Anything else?
Widespread CSA covered up. Their report said priests can be tempted. Hardly any apologies.
Anti contraception. Combined with anti abortion. Yay!
Symphysiotomy not apologised for that either
Abuse of children in various homes etc around the world...

So...

The other factor I'd add to that - more in relation to the fundamentalist Protestant branches nowadays is there's probably some link with creationist, anti science attitudes.

It's not surprising that women in this culture with the evils of abortion being preached will be the ones on the barricades. Because they know how they felt about their own pregnancies. It's an emotive issue, it'd be odd if women weren't more engaged with it than men.

I find that very hard to believe

This is UK, not Texas and it's from 2006. I'm sure I've seen later polls confirming the split in support for tighter abortion control between men and women.

Of course I'm sure some of you probably do believe the UK is run on an oppressive patriarchal system solely designed to oppress women. Back in reality even in the country with one of the most liberal , secular countries in the world with one of the most liberal abortion regimes (NI) excepted there are plenty of women who want to change that.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jan/29/health.publicservices

Missing link

This US study shows a slight difference in gender - 37% of women against, 42% of men against.
Still a majority of both men and women in favour.
www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

It's definitely not about 'gender'. This has enraged me so I can't even form a comment. Others have though.

www.facebook.com/7292655492/posts/10158496161020493/?d=n

The way that over and over when there is an issue relating to anything to do with female reproductive/ secondary sex characteristics.

Many people focus on the inclusion thing. Distracting from the matter at hand.

Put the case at a non urgent time maybe and do stuff about the actual problem?

That person is getting clobbered.

The support for this on social media is falling away. I note it's women and gay men mainly who seem to have had enough.

Irl only a tiny tiny minority bought it in the first place.