"likes it rough'

[Fluffymule]

I'm not sure which board this sits on today, but this is the one I have bookmarked so I'll go with it.

ITVs Love Island is back and this years participants have been announced across the tabloids and social media.

Leaving aside the wider issue of this type of reality show and it's messaging about young women, I saw something that really made me stop in my tracks when I saw it.

It's an article dedicated to one of the girls, prominently displayed on the newspaper website with the headline ' Love Island's Shannon Singh has sex 8 times a day and 'likes it rough'. Accompanied by two large photos of her posing in underwear.

Am I alone in finding this irresponsible? Shannon is, of course, totally free to do, say and wear whatever she wants. I've no issue with that, or her. My discomfort is the media yet again casually reinforcing careless and dangerous language around women.

Surely when women have lost their lives to men using the 'she wanted it rough' defence, casual normalisation like this is irresponsible?

[quote Flower8919]@Datun. I understand your point but if she wants to be marketed like she is a porn star then where is the harm? If it was against her will yes there is an issue. But she has made the photos that they posted available and that was her choice. If you have got it flaunt it and she will probably make a lot of money[/quote]
I would probably have had the same view 5 years ago.

But now I think it’s really harmful to women and girls to see such well publicised examples of women getting publicity for basically being a porn star.

I object to women feeling like that have to make this ‘choice’ in order to get fame/likes.

I don’t consider porn or prostitution to be empowering for women and I find the overly sexualised society and increasing normalisation of hardcore porn to be detrimental to women and girls.

The tricky thing about "rough" sex is: who gets to decide exactly what "rough" means?

Does it imply a woman can be slapped? Strangled? Forced into uncomfortable positions? Penetrated with an object? Raped?

And then it's, "Oh, I thought that's what she wanted?"

Where did this idea come from that just because a woman does something it is a feminist statement or act?

Lots of women do things that are ultimately harmful to themself or other women in general and this is the issue when people wear Feminism as a fashion statement with no real analysis.

Show me someone who's shagging eight times a day, and I'll show you a fucking liar.

She'll probably be delighted with the pre-show coverage, which is really bloody sad. Fucking depressing that this is what is being splashed out there for young girls as something to aspire to.

Well there are people who have sex 8 times a day, but its usually more of a financial arrangement rather than anything to do with desire.

[quote Flower8919]@OhDear2200

I completely agree that young girls and boys should not be brought up to see women as completely sexualised. There should be good education in place in schools to ensure this.

Rough sex shouldn’t involve women being harmed! If so then that is wrong. It involves maybe some spanking or light hair pulling it whatever you fancy that is a bit less vanilla and is pleasurable to the man and woman.[/quote]
Yes. Rough sex now it seems to be something that could actually put your life in danger. At the very minimum it's strangulation and spitting. Hair pulling and light spanking would be considered fairly vanilla from what I have read.

I mean, when I was dating, there were numerous articles about how to give a woman an orgasm. The elusive multiple orgasm was often a topic of discussion.

Foreplay, what it meant and how to do it was of great interest. Trying to find the clitoris, without a roadmap and night vision goggles, etc.

Giving pleasure to a woman was considered the ultimate goal.

Now, magazines like teen vogue, divide their 13-year-old readers into prostate havers and non-prostate havers, leaving the clitoris off the diagram altogether.

The main issue was how to instruct their female teen readers in anal sex. The gist of which seem to be it's something to be endured.

We are going backwards in terms of how society views women.

I understand your point but if she wants to be marketed like she is a porn star then where is the harm?

to my sons who receive yet more propaganda to convince them that women are commodities?

If it was against her will yes there is an issue. But she has made the photos that they posted available and that was her choice

no choice is context free her (ha!) sex and gender mean that she's had conditioning her whole life to believe that her primary value lies in the way she looks and being attractive to men

I agree there is a lot of porn out there. But that is never going to change. So instead of focusing on that you should focus on how to educate boys about feminism and respecting women.

Of course her primary value doesn’t lie with attraction to men. But men have the majority of money in the world (not saying this is right) and sex does sell so there is a lot of value in it and is why women are doing it

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I understand your point but if she wants to be marketed like she is a porn star then where is the harm?

to my sons who receive yet more propaganda to convince them that women are commodities?

If it was against her will yes there is an issue. But she has made the photos that they posted available and that was her choice

no choice is context free her (ha!) sex and gender mean that she's had conditioning her whole life to believe that her primary value lies in the way she looks and being attractive to men

I agree. Try educating teenage boys that teenage girls might not want rough sex or are not commodities. I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall. I’m forever talking about consent, porn not being real, kindness. Yet they can see all this stuff on their phones and will obviously think their mum is wrong.

So how does one object?

And argue that Shannon Singh is misguided and putting the wrong message out to women?

I agree there is a lot of porn out there. But that is never going to change

why not?

there are a lot of images of child sexual abuse out there. is that never going to change? should we never try to?

A friend of mine knows her through her family - she’s a clever business woman who is nothing at all like the party girl she makes herself out to be. I would bet money all of what she has said is a lie & that just makes things worse. idiots like this say anything they want for a bit of publicity and it’s real women like us who end up suffering

@Flower8919

I agree there is a lot of porn out there. But that is never going to change. So instead of focusing on that you should focus on how to educate boys about feminism and respecting women.

Of course her primary value doesn’t lie with attraction to men. But men have the majority of money in the world (not saying this is right) and sex does sell so there is a lot of value in it and is why women are doing it

Feminists do educate boys on how to treat women.

The point is this program and this woman aren't.

What you are basically saying is that this is the way for her to make money. So you're perpetuating the notion that women are to be commodified by being objectified.

It's certainly a viewpoint. It's not a feminist one.

Sorry but I find it so bloody depressing. This is not progressive.

And when she’s murdered in a “sex game gone wrong” the defence just need to point to this “but she loved rough sex your Honour”
So sad that this is what young women think is the image they need to portray to the world.

Here you are Flower8919

This is the reality of our porn soaked culture that celebrates rough sex as positive with so many girls having anal sex as part of their early sexual experiences and feeling pressured to give oral sex before their first kiss. That's not feminism.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4266900-Heart-breaking-reality-of-a-teenage-girls-sex-life

Depressing to see this get air time tbh

@Flower8919

Feminism is about choice. If she likes it rough then she is entitled to that and to her opinion. People shouldn’t criticise her. Sex sells and she can probably make a lot of money from her social media following which will have increased a lot with this article

So far no one actually is criticising her. She's just a poor little girl who doesn't know what she's doing.(funny how often posters on here take exception to women being called "girls" unless it's used to infantilise women and excuse their behaviour)

It's horrible but she is complicit in it.

Who's calling her a girl? Only one poster has as far as I can see. And no one has said she doesn't know what she's doing and plenty of people have said that she is complicit.

The point is whether promoting women in this hypersexualised way with these "rough sex" comments is damaging to women and girls.

@AssassinatedBeauty

Who's calling her a girl? Only one poster has as far as I can see. And no one has said she doesn't know what she's doing and plenty of people have said that she is complicit.

The point is whether promoting women in this hypersexualised way with these "rough sex" comments is damaging to women and girls.

Of course it's damaging but here's a selection of the excuses being made for her.

Shannon is, of course, totally free to do, say and wear whatever she wants. I've no issue with that, or her

I object to women feeling like that have to make this ‘choice’ in order to get fame/likes

The sad thing is by the time this poor girl realises how much she's being exploited and commodified the damage will already be done

degrading this woman this way, she's like a lamb to the slaughter, for what?

Shannon could, you know, try getting a job where she can keep her clothes on.

I called her a girl. I am genuinely sorry if that isn’t how she identifies. Please do correct me in that case.

I believe that there is a constant message being sent about young women being commodities. I detest the normalisation of prostitution and porn and I think women and girls always loose out in this. The whole “rough porn” where women get injured, in some cases divert badly so is beyond appalling.

The court cases where “she liked it rough” horrifies me.

I fear for my daughter to grow up in a world where this is normalised and I am horrified that this is a message that is being promoted to my son. Of course I am bringing him up to respect women but these kind of messages are harmful.

The added factor here is that this is how this girl is being pimped out marketed by a TV channel.

The fact that posters here think this is ok is awful.

@WoolOfBat I’m in total agreement with you.

What I don’t like is the implication that this makes me a prude of some sort. That I’m not liberated enough to embrace ‘rough sex’.

extract

Erika Lust, one of the world’s only female porn directors, agrees that strangulation and choking scenes now dominate porn. “Face slapping, choking, gagging and spitting has become the alpha and omega of any porn scene and not within a BDSM context,” she says. “These are presented as standard ways to have sex when, in fact, they are niches.”

When a direct threat to life is slowly normalised, “it means that a woman whose partner chokes her might not report it – and if she does, it might go nowhere,” says Edwards. “It means that if a woman dies this way, judges and juries feel ‘this is how people have sex now’ and questions aren’t always asked.”

Lust points out that if sex education is inadequate, “young people will go to the internet for answers. Many people’s first exposure to sex is hardcore porn”. This, she says, teaches kids “that men should be rough and demanding, and that degradation is standard.”

One young man who spoke to the Guardian for this piece said he chokes his girlfriend, and has done for several years, “because she likes it”. Days later, he got in touch again. “I thought about our conversation and asked her about it. She said she doesn’t actually like it; she thought I liked it. But the thing is, I don’t: I thought it’s what she wanted.”

Continues: www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex

Totally irresponsible and exploitive reporting. If anything ever happens to this poor girl they have given the excuse out. Just what's she needs as we live through an epidemic of sexual violence where even your underwear no one sees til they pull off your clothes to rape you is proof you were asking fir it. What possessed them.

There must have been hundreds of other things they could have said about her

ITV should be ashamed. This vile programme should be consigned to the dustbin. Even the name "Love Island" there is nothing aboutt he show that equates to "love"