"likes it rough'

[Fluffymule]

I'm not sure which board this sits on today, but this is the one I have bookmarked so I'll go with it.

ITVs Love Island is back and this years participants have been announced across the tabloids and social media.

Leaving aside the wider issue of this type of reality show and it's messaging about young women, I saw something that really made me stop in my tracks when I saw it.

It's an article dedicated to one of the girls, prominently displayed on the newspaper website with the headline ' Love Island's Shannon Singh has sex 8 times a day and 'likes it rough'. Accompanied by two large photos of her posing in underwear.

Am I alone in finding this irresponsible? Shannon is, of course, totally free to do, say and wear whatever she wants. I've no issue with that, or her. My discomfort is the media yet again casually reinforcing careless and dangerous language around women.

Surely when women have lost their lives to men using the 'she wanted it rough' defence, casual normalisation like this is irresponsible?

[AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]

I absolutely agree. I thought exactly the same when I saw it.
It’s dangerous and irresponsible to market “liking rough sex” as a desirable trait in women/ teenage girls.

[Beamur]

Do you think it's whining to notice? Talk about it? Raise awareness?
What would you do? Or what do you think women should do?

[KimikosNightmare]

@Beamur

Do you think it's whining to notice? Talk about it? Raise awareness?
What would you do? Or what do you think women should do?

It's whining if all you (general you) is going to do is take notice. If all you (general you) do is come up with excuses for the likes of Shannon it doesn't really help anything.

[BernardBlackMissesLangCleg]

I’m not interested in coming up with excuses for the woman in the OP, nor am I interested in vilifying her

I am interested in why she thinks appearing in the paper in her pants and talking about enjoying being on the receiving end of male violence is a good thing to do

I am also interested in why that might actually further her career

And I am interested in why the media are talking about a woman enjoying male violence as if that were a healthy way to feel

[Iggi999]

Kimikos I'm thinking of the poster who said she could be on tv without doing this if she had talent. I don't think that is the case for the majority of young women. The tv part in particular. You might not be turned into a glamour model but women would be encouraged to slim down/tone up/hair/make up/fashion. I don't accept that it is as easy for a female singer to dress like, say, Ed Sheeran as it would be for a man.

[PerditaCambellBlack]

It’s incredibly depressing- we still need feminism, so much misogyny out there. The people who make this programme with its rapey vibes should be ashamed of themselves.

[TheQueef]

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I’m not interested in coming up with excuses for the woman in the OP, nor am I interested in vilifying her

I am interested in why she thinks appearing in the paper in her pants and talking about enjoying being on the receiving end of male violence is a good thing to do

I am also interested in why that might actually further her career

And I am interested in why the media are talking about a woman enjoying male violence as if that were a healthy way to feel

Agree.

[WoolOfBat]

I am a bit confused as to why anyone would think that women here just are “whining” about it? I have sent an email complaining and I assume most others have as well? I also like to discuss this with friends and family, especially my children, as I view this as something that is fundamentally wrong in society. To discuss on this board sharpens my arguments and inspires me in regard to things that can be done.

I think the main culprit here is ITV and the marketing of women this way. I think the person in question is very likely not the sharpest tool in the box. However, I do believe that society has helped to shape her (mitigating factor) and I hope that the messages that are sent can be influenced.

To take an analogy. In criminal law you first decide whether someone is guilty or not. Then, if guilty, a sentence is passed where mitigating circumstances are taken into account.

My impression is that most women here both think that this woman is responsible for sending out a very disturbing message but that there also are mitigating circumstances in terms of societal influences and upbringing (early sexualisation). Hence, when we talk about her, we (as we not are any court of law and the only “sentence” we can pass is our “judgement” of her character) take all these mitigating circumstances into account.

Genuine questions @KimikosNightmare , do you believe in mitigating circumstances? In legal consequences and in passing judgment on people? Or do you believe that once something has been done, the “judgement” should be the same regardless of personal circumstances?

[wherewildflowersgrow]

How awful that photo is. It should be reported to advertising standards.

[PankhurstConnection]

@KimikosNightmare

No one on here isjudgingher- just the misogynistic society which continues to exploit women and see us as nothing more than decoration

I am. I think it's utter hypocrisy on the part of posters who , quite rightly, are criticising the commodification and overt sexualisation but are falling over themselves to excuse any part Shannon herself plays in this.

I agree, Shannon is old enough to know what she is putting out there. She may well be somewhat indoctrinated by the expectations of young women by society but unless she is very dim she is fully cognizant of what she is putting out there when she says things like this. She may not have intended it as a headline or sub heading or even the main descriptor of herself but make no mistake, she put it in because she is playing to a role of how she wants the male gaze to perceive her. She is NOT thinking of other women or girls other than as competition and she is more than old enough to know that is what she is doing.

As I age I seem to be increasingly losing patience with women who cannot see the ripple effect of their actions on other women and young girls and who may even play the system to their benefit by using these women as scapegoats; 'not like other girls', 'better than those prudes', 'I'm so open-minded not like them' (open mind - perhaps too far so the brain fell out?) These women aren't just victims of a patriarchy they are complicit in and essential to the patriarchy and other women should be able to recognise and acknowledge their part in it.

[User135644]

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

the fact women are more submissive

Oh now we know you're on a wind-up then

The whole 50 shades thing hardly helped. Women went crazy for it.

[Ghislainedefeligonde]

Great post pankhurst
I’m also losing patience! And some of the replies on this thread have made me check if I’m still on the feminism board….

[WoolOfBat]

Pankhurst, I think we agree to a large degree but I do think that for a young woman of that age (with her background and the society we are in) also simultaneously is a culprit and a victim. I am very cross with her (I think I have outlined my thoughts of her intellectual capacity above) but I also feel sorry for her.

I appreciate that you are losing patience with young women but do you think there are mitigating circumstances? I think society always judges women the harshest.

[PankhurstConnection]

@WoolOfBat

Pankhurst, I think we agree to a large degree but I do think that for a young woman of that age (with her background and the society we are in) also simultaneously is a culprit and a victim. I am very cross with her (I think I have outlined my thoughts of her intellectual capacity above) but I also feel sorry for her.

I appreciate that you are losing patience with young women but do you think there are mitigating circumstances? I think society always judges women the harshest.

Perhaps it didn't come across in my post but we probably agree; I don't think Shannon or young women like her are doing this without some indoctrination. I don't think all the girls joining Only Fans are doing it to annoy people BUT I do think they swallow an idea of women and the importance of appealing to males without a great deal of thought and only after it all goes wrong do they consider they may have been incorrect but even then a large number still don't seem to connect it to how it can affect other women and girls who aren't participating in sexualised culture at all or how it contributes to misogyny in society. I am perhaps over estimating their ability to see through it all because I did at a younger age and possibly I shouldn't be so impatient (but I have to confess I am - I am probably more grumpy than you WoolOfBat )

We are possibly closer to agreement than disagreement here. Yes, society judges women more harshly (and I do accept that as criticism but I am not about to let other women off the hook including myself) but to be VERY clear I do not judge Shannon more harshly than I do the men, media and sex industries who promote all this. In my mind next to them she is misguided they are the one's truly responsible - the person who decided that THIS part of her personal description was the one to absolutely define her at the top of the article is more to blame but she probably shouldn't have said it in the first place. Who knows perhaps even she regrets it now she's seen it heading a piece on her. I very much doubt she considers it a most important or even defining aspect of herself as a woman.

[1forAll74]

I think that the producers of this predictable and awful programme, have had to give all the contestants, a guidance course,on how to deal with any fallouts regarding media attention,and trolls etc, when they step into the limelight again after leaving the show. I suppose its because of Caroline and other issues.

[PankhurstConnection]

That was an exceptionally long sentence in my first paragraph - sorry!

[PankhurstConnection]

@1forAll74

I think that the producers of this predictable and awful programme, have had to give all the contestants, a guidance course,on how to deal with any fallouts regarding media attention,and trolls etc, when they step into the limelight again after leaving the show. I suppose its because of Caroline and other issues.

I fully agree with giving them a course but I'm not convinced the course will be as in depth as they need to be (see previous 'psychological screening of contestants in shows like Big Brother which were in no way effective enough.) I'm not sure all of them are quite ready for it all. That said many of them are Insta-famous now aren't they? So perhaps they have an inkling. Even so I think there should be more concern given to the psychological well being of these people as well as the ability to handle the attention (especially the women) if they must have shows like these.

[PankhurstConnection]

Further to my reply to Wool I don't think this frees Shannon from culpability however. She is still an adult. I think people who do go for shows and careers based on vanity and superficiality are very self-centered in their outlook and it would be counter-intuitive to them and their goals to consider the effect of their actions on other people - so here we are with 'Likes it Rough' as her descriptor.

[Flower8919]

@wherewildflowersgrow

How awful that photo is. It should be reported to advertising standards.

Are you serious? Based on what?

[WoolOfBat]

Pankhurst I think we are very close in what we believe. I also saw a lot of young girls and women play the female roles growing up.

What makes me really angry though is that women tend to pay the price for this to a larger extent than men. Women get slut shamed, women get exploited and sometimes young women don’t realise this until it is too late. Naked picture will have an impact on the rest of your life. If you sleep with a lot of men, some people will judge you.

I think that when looking at young women like this, I see not only the damage they are doing but also the consequences they inevitably will suffer. In the meantime, the faceless person marketing this will suffer no consequences whatsoever.

But as I said above, I do believe that this person is responsible for their actions.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

I think probably as many women and couples are having rough sex now as they were a few years ago but that nowadays it is reported on a lot more so it seems more prevalent

Having been sexually active since the 1970s, and talked about everything with friends, I am pretty sure that rough sex is more common and — importantly — very much more violent than in the past. I’d never heard of women being choked or spat on except by a rapist. I can’t imagine any woman enjoying that.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

now stop kink shaming me and other women please


////

Actually, if another's person's sexual choices and preferences are now being accepted as justification for murdering women during sex, I think we've a serious problem.

Funny how few none men are murdered by women during "rough sex gone wrong ",

[LolaSmiles]

TellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz
I agree with you. It's also funny how many of the male murderers seem to ignore that the BDSM community has an emphasis on safe, sane and consensual. To my knowledge none of these 'rough sex gone wrong' deaths have come from the BDSM community. It's almost like some men view women as a piece of meat for their own sexual gratification, regardless of the violence involved.
I hate the way questioning male violence to women and women's deaths at the hands of men gets dismissed as kink shaming. It is not about kink between two consenting adults. It's about male pattern violence, the normalisation of male sexual violence, and the fact that oops I never meant to kill her, she wanted me to strangle her close to death is considered an acceptable defence for murder.

[Feelinghothothottoday]

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I’m not interested in coming up with excuses for the woman in the OP, nor am I interested in vilifying her

I am interested in why she thinks appearing in the paper in her pants and talking about enjoying being on the receiving end of male violence is a good thing to do

I am also interested in why that might actually further her career

And I am interested in why the media are talking about a woman enjoying male violence as if that were a healthy way to feel

This. Exactly.

[Feelinghothothottoday]

It’s a dangerous message. I asked my 18 year son what he thought. He said she likes rough sex. I asked him (not directly looking) what is rough sex? It’s what porn is often about, strangulation, slapping. He said.

There we go. I can tell him as many times as possible that sex is conscensual. That sex is fun. Blah blah. But that’s what he thinks.