Dear Feminists: Be Meaner

[NonnyMouse1337]

Fantastic article that reflects views I've had for a long time. Always wished women would learn how to be more 'mean' and willing to centre women and women's rights instead of looking out for everyone else. We really won't get far unless this changes. Glad to see someone else articulate this so well.

theblisteringrebuttal.substack.com/p/4183e962-ded5-47f7-b89f-c49b9de6cbb5

There's no need to be nasty
Is there not? OK, then.
Because being polite and kiiiiind is working so well for women.

being firm doesn't necessarily mean being nasty

Tell that to the men leaning over me and a friend in a nightclub, who after at least five polite 'no's' STILL didn't leave us alone even after being told to f**k off to their face

be kind' effectively becomes 'collude prettily in your own oppression'

Oooh that's a T shirt I want! Dictionary style -

Be Kind (v) Collude prettily in your own oppression

I didn't use to be kind. I was fiery and angry and honest and yes, a bit blinkered sometimes. I thought I was doing everyone a favour by pointing at elephants in rooms by being the person prepared to say the unsayable so we could get past ignoring it and talk about it honestly. It never occurred to me that people actually didn't want to talk about it at all (admittedly I might well be ASD.)

What happened? Work happened. Feedback and "needs improvement" and various bosses and mentors trained it out of me. Now I get feedback about how diplomatic and good with people I am, professionally at least. And to be fair, in a professional context they are skills that make a difference. But it's very noticeable the males seem to get away with saying things bluntly that would cause a sharp intake of breath if I said them.

I think this is one of the reasons I get so pissed off with the concept of cis. Because this stuff wasn't innate, it was constructed consciously and painfully brick by brick because society wouldn't accept me otherwise, and I experience it as an imposition. To be told it's my natural gender identity because that what someone else needs to be true validate their own ideology is just fucking insulting.

@Siblingquandary

being firm doesn't necessarily mean being nasty

Tell that to the men leaning over me and a friend in a nightclub, who after at least five polite 'no's' STILL didn't leave us alone even after being told to f**k off to their face

Great, angry article on female rage: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jun/13/lisa-taddeo-i-am-angry-at-my-history-of-apology

It's as easy to say, "Sorry but this is our space", or even, "While we sympathise with your dysphoria, this is our space and you can't come in," as it is to say, "Fuck off."

But we've tried the first tactics. We were ignored. When we reiterated it, we were called bigots, T3RFs, Nazis and issued with rape and death threats.

Maybe if males thought about "being kind" to the female sex and listening to us, empathising with us, looking for solutions to their problems which don't involve causing more problems for us, then maybe we wouldn't have reached the point where women are saying No impolitely.

The issue here, is that there is no acceptable way for a woman to say no to a man who thinks the answer should be yes.

Being kind is what has gotten us into this whole mess in the first place. Women have tried to be accommodating, politely ignoring males using their spaces or politely asking for males to respect their spaces. Women gave an inch and now we have males taking our sports, our awards, our single-sex spaces and services. When I saw groups like Stonewall and the Scottish Trans Alliance telling the Scottish and UK governments that the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act should be removed, that's when I decided - No. Fuck off.

"The issue here, is that there is no acceptable way for a woman to say no to a man who thinks the answer should be yes."

Exactly. Just saying 'no' is seen as rude, bigoted, or selfish, no matter how you say it.

But we've tried the first tactics. We were ignored. When we reiterated it, we were called bigots, T3RFs, Nazis and issued with rape and death threats.

Maybe if males thought about "being kind" to the female sex and listening to us, empathising with us, looking for solutions to their problems which don't involve causing more problems for us, then maybe we wouldn't have reached the point where women are saying No impolitely.

This. I'm not going to blame women for being angry. They have every right to be.

You can say something like, "With all due respect, I understand you have a problem with using the male toilets, but it is not the responsibility of women to accommodate you. Our space is for females only."

And the response would be "die in a fire". Why do you think women should be held to a much higher standard than everyone else?

But my bet is if you're civil to begin with, you'll be far less likely to be told to die.

I've never seen any evidence of that. I'm always civil. But trans activists think I'm literally erasing their existence because I don't support gender identity ideology. We're not actually talking about dealing with reasonable people here.

The 'be kind' mantra might as well be renamed 'shut up, women'. This is what being kind and saying nicely 'we'd like to retain our single sex spaces' got us - terfisaslur.com/

Women have had enough of being threatened with rape and being told to 'die in a grease fire'. How is this a surprise?

@ThisForUnpopularOpinions

I don't. I believe everyone should be nice. Men and women. At least in the first instance.

Though if someone is rude to you, all bets are off. So if you're told to die in a fire, feel free to reciprocate on kind.

But my bet is if you're civil to begin with, you'll be far less likely to be told to die. Civility begets civility.

You can say something like, "With all due respect, I understand you have a problem with using the male toilets, but it is not the responsibility of women to accommodate you. Our space is for females only".

This is what I always say in discussions with transactivists. Almost word for word, and always have.i also them suggest third spaces as a way of solving the problem that TWfeel they have in men's spaces.

In response, I get called bigot/T*RF/transphobe and often vulgar threats.

Because, as we have explained, the issue is not the way we are saying no, it's the No itself.

Want to say something opinionated? Just be nice!

Shortly before Covid I went with my boyfriend to a pub to watch the rugby. It was busy so we shared a table with a couple. We got chatting and somehow the (drunk) man got onto the subject of sex. He was bragging about how he always refused to wear a condom. I had just got out of hospital caused by my contraception so I admit the subject was a bit... prickly for me.

I asked him what he would do if he got a woman pregnant. He sneered, looked me up and down and said, "I'd use old faithful, the coat hanger' complete with hand motions.

I was shocked and obviously wanted to punch him, but I just looked him up and down back, and calmly said, "You're disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself," and let the awkward silence hang.

My boyfriend lasted about 4 seconds before he apologised to the man for me! I walked out and bf followed, we had a row where he basically told me I was opinionated and rude and I shouldn't have said anything. I told him if he didn't like me having a voice then he knew where the door was. He left my flat and I never heard from him again.

The point is that I beat myself up for a long, long time for that incident. I still have days where I wonder if things would have been different for our relationship if I'd kept my mouth shut and condoned violence against women. OP that link has reinforced that I did the right thing.

bloody hell, Sparkl.

Why is be kind a default position for women? It's not for men. I'm not rude, but I don't see why "being kind" should be my priority to strangers on the internet calling me hateful, bigoted and transphobic for having a politely worded opinion.

Sparklfairy you're well rid of that bf.. and I think what you said to the drunk was very mild! The pair of them are disgusting in different ways for their attitudes.

Thanks @ArabellaScott and yes @Beamur, I thought I was remarkably restrained!

Sparklfairy well done. I'm so sorry you felt like you needed to beat yourself up for that though. You were brilliant. I'd have wanted to do him actual harm. I find situations like that unbearable. You handled yourself with straightforward dignity with him and with the bf.

This reminds me of school, where the boys were rewarded for not behaving badly but the girls were just expected to behave well.

It doesn't matter if the girls in a changing room tell a boy to 'Fuck off!' or say, 'Sorry, but we ask that you respect our space and don't come in here.' Both will be treated as the girls being nasty. The boy, no matter how badly behaved, will always be seen as more important and the teachers will use the girls to manage his behaviour. Then they scratch their heads over why so many males grow up to be criminals.

Any man that said something like that man in the pub, with actions, Sparkl, was deliberately being aggressive towards you. It was sneery flexing, showing his ability and power, knowing that in general social niceties and female socialisation and your vulnerability mean that you were less likely to call him out on it. An abusive, sadistic, cowardly, misogynistic bully, and the boyfriend, I'm afraid, an apologist for all of the above. Well shot of him.

And you were perfectly correct, courageous, and admirable. Thank you, I think these apparently small stands matter.

I think there's a huge difference between real life and social media/ online forums/ comments pages (sparkl's awful experience notwithstanding) too. People project MASSIVELY online - just look at any AIBU thread to see what some ppl imagine that the op has/ hasn't said.

Nowt to do with feminism but a (male) author had tweeted about some covid stats - I very politely noted that they were using the wrong data and pointed to the correct data, and they immediately blocked me (my Twitter profile has a female picture so could be that).
Presume they thought I was a covid denier or the opposite, I dunno.

Anyone who thinks civility begets civility need only look at JK Rowling. Her essay is the epitome of firm, boundary holding civility. Read it, and tell me if there's anywhere she could have been more civil in her phrasing without taking away from her meaning.

Then go look at the response. Look at the death threats, the rape threats, the oral rape threats, the threats to her family. Look at how the stars of the Potter films, people whose fame and fortune are owed entirely to her, threw her to the wolves.

Civil behaviour in the face of male entitlement and narcissism DOES NOT WORK.