Dear Feminists: Be Meaner

[NonnyMouse1337]

Fantastic article that reflects views I've had for a long time. Always wished women would learn how to be more 'mean' and willing to centre women and women's rights instead of looking out for everyone else. We really won't get far unless this changes. Glad to see someone else articulate this so well.

theblisteringrebuttal.substack.com/p/4183e962-ded5-47f7-b89f-c49b9de6cbb5

Trans men just as much demand to be called 'real men' as trans women do 'real women'.

This statement shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

I guess they demand, but people don't listen as much so they don't pursue it as much?

I am, as ever, unmoved by appeals to my female socialisation that I should adopt a higher standard of behaviour than everyone else.

There aren't more trans women than transmen. Around 80% of referrals to Tavistock are female to male transitioners. They just...don't shout as loudly and stamp their feet when women don't meekly do as they are told.

They also don't as a class, want to be housed in men's prisons or compete in men's sports, or, by the sounds of things in schools, they don't want to use the boys loos or get change in the boys changing rooms.

Can't think why.

Which is odd, because that seems to be main demands of the male people who identify as women.

And nobody's holding you to a higher standard of niceness, or rather non-arseholeness, than men.

Yes they are. Talking of kindness, you aren't being particularly kiiiiiiiind yourself. You seem to find it quite pleasing to have a go at other women. Maybe look at that.

@Thisforunpopularopinions

Why should anyone care about anyone else?

Do I need to care about any cause at all? What if I actually see a crime being committed, but it doesn't affect me, do I need to care enough to stop it?

Should I speak up if I see another man joking about raping women? Should I say something if a bloke in the pub talks of using a coat hanger for abortions?

By all means if you want a society where nobody cares about one another, you're entitled to that wish. But be consistent. Don't demand men give a shit about the number of women getting raped or murdered, when you don't care about anyone else.

I think it's about having the right to choose what you care about. It seems women overwhelmingly are told to care about everything and everyone, at the expense of themselves, whilst men don't have to. If men choose not to care about a particular subject, nobody bleats at them to 'be kind'.

It doesn't mean 'if you don't care about x or y then you're not allowed to care about anything'. Or when people pipe up about 'all lives matter' when BLM is discussed or 'When's International Mens' Day?!' on International Womens' Day

I think it's about having the right to choose what you care about. It seems women overwhelmingly are told to care about everything and everyone, at the expense of themselves, whilst men don't have to. If men choose not to care about a particular subject, nobody bleats at them to 'be kind'.

This is exactly it.

BE KIND TO WOMEN

"It would appear trans men try to emulate the non-bleating and non-victimhood behaviour of real men, while trans women try to behave like real, feminist women."

Or transwomen could simply be demonstrating the bleating victimhood behaviour of some real men.

@Thisforunpopularopinions

Why should anyone care about anyone else?

Do I need to care about any cause at all? What if I actually see a crime being committed, but it doesn't affect me, do I need to care enough to stop it?

Should I speak up if I see another man joking about raping women? Should I say something if a bloke in the pub talks of using a coat hanger for abortions?

By all means if you want a society where nobody cares about one another, you're entitled to that wish. But be consistent. Don't demand men give a shit about the number of women getting raped or murdered, when you don't care about anyone else.

Nah. See. This is what you do not get. We know that men do not care. And we know that men rely on us caring about them and get a lot of free labor out of it. So fewer of us are caring, bc our caring hasn't been reciprocated, lol. I'd rather have men not care about me and also not care about them than have them not care about me while I still care about them. Ridiculous!

@Thisforunpopularopinions

Why should anyone care about anyone else?

Do I need to care about any cause at all? What if I actually see a crime being committed, but it doesn't affect me, do I need to care enough to stop it?

Should I speak up if I see another man joking about raping women? Should I say something if a bloke in the pub talks of using a coat hanger for abortions?

By all means if you want a society where nobody cares about one another, you're entitled to that wish. But be consistent. Don't demand men give a shit about the number of women getting raped or murdered, when you don't care about anyone else.

I'm not actually done. Where's the evidence that women as a class do not care about men? There are individual examples of exception, but overall, women show up for yall. And overall, you do not show up for them. Which is why your defensive fragility is so hilarious, actually. "Don't expect anyone to care about you if you don't give a shit about others." Yeah, that's exactly what we need to be telling MEN, as they are the ones who feel entitled to care without reciprocation.

Being kind is what has gotten us into this whole mess in the first place. Women have tried to be accommodating, politely ignoring males using their spaces or politely asking for males to respect their spaces. Women gave an inch and now we have males taking our sports, our awards, our single-sex spaces and services.

Exactly this.

Brilliant thread. I’ve always been an outspoken feminist, good at campaigning. But when it comes to standing up for myself, rather than for women in general — total fail. Mustn’t be greedy, mustn’t be unkiiiiind. I’m trying to learn from others here.

"It would appear trans men try to emulate the non-bleating and non-victimhood behaviour of real men, while trans women try to behave like real, feminist women."

You're kidding right?
"Real" men don't bleat and whine?

I've heard everything now? 😂😂

Loving this thread. Welcome aboard @daenerysterfgaryen

First and foremost, I'm not especially well schooled in feminist thinking, but I'm raising 2 teen girls, so I'm very interested to read the wisdom and experience of women on this and other issues.
While it would be nice if my DDs could "be kind" to each other more often, when it comes to their experience of the boys in their life, I'm pleased to say they do not stand for any nonsense, and what nonsense they do report! Around the time of the Sarah Everard vigils, the girls in my eldest's year went on strike one day due to feeling like the school didn't do enough to protect girls (there was a problem with 1 boy assaulting several girls, which came to light when 1 girl spoke up, and other girls came forward, and the school seemed more protective towards this boy and their own reputation), which i thought was great. But on a more day-to-day level, 14yo boys are calling girls "feminazis" in group chats and coming out with by-the-numbers sexist, not-all-men, toxic edge-lord crap. My kids are not being meek or mild towards these specimens, which I encourage, and I listen and laugh and groan with them as they tell me the latest idiocy, but inside I'm unsettled. It's still a shitty world for women. Even my youngest says she is numb to grown men shouting at her from cars (while in school uniform, FFS!) What is it going to be like in a few years when they are going out in the evenings and these 14yo idiots are now 21yo idiots? What can I give them? How can I protect them? So I lurk here, as I have done since they were babies.( I discovered The Bumbo here, and for that alone i am eternally grateful!)

The second thing is: I'm a transgender woman. I'm what any of you would call a TRA. I'm very active and vocal on Twitter. I dislike bullies of any stripe. When MNHQ split the forums recently, i noticed the change almost immediately, At last, i thought, I can read these threads without having to squint through all the gross and ignorant stereotypes, fearmongering and misconceptions of trans lives. I'm honestly not that interested in what you think of us, and would prefer to read more about pretty much anything else here.

So I am sad to see on this thread that it is starting to creep back in, and when someone refers to threats and abuse from trans women, or demonstrates basic ignorance of the status quo regarding access to single-sex spaces, it is just accepted uncritically.

The "be kind" question is really interesting. IMO, everyone should be more, not less kind. Men being deficient in kindness is more of a problem than women being trained to have an abundance of it. But what's a woman to do? Patiently and kindly explain to men why they need to stop being dicks? That just perpetuates the problem, by indulging a man's inner-toddler. And so I lurk on, looking out for some insight.

But I will say, that it is a mistake to keep laying the problem at trans women's feet, as enticing as that may seem. I think that was the biggest problem with /FWR before MNHQ took action. Our mere existence seemed to inevitably suck all the air away from everything else, and I know for a fact that it caused some women to stay silent for fear of being bullied if they dissented, b/c they would PM me about it after I occasionally stuck my oar in.

It would help my family at the very least if that wasn't allowed to happen on this new board. Thanks for reading.

The "be kind" question is really interesting. IMO, everyone should be more, not less kind. Men being deficient in kindness is more of a problem than women being trained to have an abundance of it. But what's a woman to do? Patiently and kindly explain to men why they need to stop being dicks? That just perpetuates the problem, by indulging a man's inner-toddler. And so I lurk on, looking out for some insight.

So if our patiently explaining to the opposite sex to stop being dicks won't work , what will? Being kind also doesn't work so why should women waste any time being " kind" to the opposite sex, when it will only be exploited and used against us?

@334bu I'm less concerned for myself than i am for my kids. I'm big on questions but short on answers. I suppose I'm saying boys need better educating, because right now they seem to be educating themselves, mostly through social media like tik-tok, snapchat and instagram, which are all like foreign countries to me.

Males in a female space demanding they be centred do inevitably suck all the air away from everything else.

Nobody should be made to feel uncomfortable. Nobody should have their boundaries crossed. People should respect others and treat them politely. If all these things don’t happen, they should be called out fiercely.

If a boy oversteps a boundary, he should be called out for that. If a boy makes a girl feel uncomfortable, he should also be called out for that. You cannot keep expecting people to be kind and polite to you if you overstep boundaries, make them feel uncomfortable or harass them.

As for transwomen, I think we equally should be kind and polite. However, the problem is when a transwoman with a penis demands access to female prisons, female changing rooms and female shelters. Many women feel that the presence of a(n exposed) penis in single sex space makes them uncomfortable and that this is crossing a boundary. This is why we need to discuss this so that a solution can be found.

Nobody needs to be kind and polite when they feel that a boundary has been crossed. Nobody should be made to feel uncomfortable.

I'm less concerned for myself than i am for my kids. I'm big on questions but short on answers. I suppose I'm saying boys need better educating, because right now they seem to be educating themselves, mostly through social media like tik-tok, snapchat and instagram, which are all like foreign countries to me.

Surely as their father you have some insight into how the teenage male works? Why do you think boys and men think it is acceptable to harass people of the opposite sex?