Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will

[BeckyBendyLegs]

And here it is!

Actually DH is coming around to the idea of ADs as he sees that I need a bit of a break from this stress I am putting myself under. But I've been skepitcal about them too for ages and ages (partly because I felt so crap taking fluoxitine). I've learnt a lot more about them though and recently found out my niece has taken and is back on the same sort you and CountryLover take as she says she has had big anxiety and insomnia issues. She also said, interestingly, she's never had any problems coming off them (one of my worries).

I know becky it is very frustrating. I used to have a nap after lunch regularly too when I was pregnant. I'd never be able to fall asleep in the day now.

I know you don't have depression, but ADs are for anxiety too, and you do seem to have anxiety.

arcadia sorry your DD has a cold again. I hate it when they are ill. It's so hard to be patient. Hopefully tonight will be better. It's good that you felt able to drift off at least.

Hi orangeflutie sorry you had a bad night too. I'm sure you'll sleep better tonight as you are extra tired.

I feel a bit guilty saying I had a good night!

getdown do not feel guilty!!! You are our inspiration!

Serious question now: do you guys think that taking ADs (nothing like the horrible prozac) will help me get over this once and for all or will I just be delaying facing the issues I have? That's what worries me is that by taking ADs I'm altering my brain chemistry and in fact just delaying facing up to these problems I have? Will I spend the whole time worrying about having to come off them?

I'm getting better at this sleep deprivation lark. I don't feel too bad, except when I talk to DH about being tired and then the tears come!

hi becky et al. I felt so tired I had to hand DD over to my neighbour mid morning (after a guy came about our roof) and go back to bed. I've had about an hour more sleep but feel really spaced out now! Just popped round there and DD has fallen asleep on cushions on the floor - cute! Feel a bit guilty she hasn't had her lunch yet but I'm having mine now.
What was a bit scary was today was the first time I didn't really feel able to look after her myself due to tiredness. Oh well, hopefully the next few nights will be better. I'm just worried about her getting colds when I'm back at work, no way I could do my job feeling like this .

Becky what stirkes me in one of your posts is you saying if you let go then the anxiety creeps back in (or something like that). The whole point is you do need to let go, whatever it takes to help you do that, and trust yourself to be able to get better in the longer term. The sense of striving only perpetuates anxiety.

My doctor isn't 'letting' me have the mirtazapine so unless I change doctor I'm stuck with sorting this out my way withouth ADs (I'm not taking an SSRI). Fortunately I have found the sedating anti-hystamines helpful but don't like being reliant (even temporarily) on them. HOwever I am convinced it is the best option for me at the moment and am also convinced they won't affect my health in the long term. Have you tried them? You could just use them on evenings when you feel the anxiety start to set in and it would just help to relax you I think. If I take one even if I get woken I can get back to sleep fairly easily. What do you think?

As for your question about being 'cured' of this by ADs, I know countrylover says the ADs got rid of her sleep anxiety altogether so it may be worth a try.

I feel if I still have significant problems in a year then it's time to go back to the GP for me, and change GP's if necessary, but I'm still seeing it as a temporary thing.

Sorry i'm rambling it's the tiredness!

Becky that's a difficult question about ADs. I suppose you might be delaying facing existing issues, but taking the right AD would solve the sleep/anxiety problem for a while. It sounds like it is having quite an impact on your life, especially as a mother to three young ds when I'm guessing you need all the energy you can get.

If you were to decide to try ADs you might find you break the sleep problem cycle, which would then lessen your anxiety and also have the benefit of improving your mood aswell.

When I had difficulty sleeping I noticed my anxiety increased, I needed to drink coffee to make me feel better which made me more anxious and made my sleep problem worse. I also tended to lose a sense of perspective. Maybe look taking ADs as just giving yourself a much needed break for a while.

Like GetDown I also notice that running makes me feel much more relaxed and improves my sleep. If you can maybe try and fit some exercise in your day that you enjoy.

Hope this helps:)

I agree totally with orangeflutie - ADs may well break the sleep problem cycle for you becky. Also I totally agree that running every other day has massively helped both my mood and my sleep.

Don't worry about coming off them. I have been pleasantly surprised. No horrible side effects at all coming off mirtazapine. I have been doing it really really slowly and there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't do the same.

You guys are so lovely - thanks for all this. I still don't know. I saw lavender woman today (for the lsat time apparently) but have to arrange an appointment with the CBT / EDMR (what's that?) woman who rang me when we were in Wales. It might be another 10 months until they see me for treatment though. Anyway lavender woman still says she doesn't think I have a mental health problem 'just anxiety' she says. She was more useful today than she has been in the past and we talked about sleep anxiety quite a bit and she said, a bit like what Arcadia says, I need to let go and not see 'getting better' as 'am better'. It's gradual. She thinks this week is just a blip, it probably is. I'm looking forward to going to bed tonight in the new bed again as I am soooo tired I am bound to sleep.

Arcadia I am so scared of any sort of sleeping pills. I don't know why. Perhaps because I felt I was 'forced' to take zopiclone for two weeks solid when this all first happened and the health visitor, DH, my mum were all telling me (well-meaning they were) to take them every night. I then googled zopiclone and had the closest I've had to a panic attack about what I read. It took me a while to wean myself off them (even after just two weeks!!!) using diazepam and then herbal sleeping tablets. I think the memory of those early weeks is so raw still that any thought of taking even over-the-counter pills worries me. I also worry 'what if they don't work?'

Anyway, must do a spot of work then we're off to the park as the sun is shining :)

Arcadia we will sleep well tonight - don't feel bad about needing an extra hour this morning and you did sleep! That's good.

Have been trying really, really hard to be happy and positive all day. Tiredness hitting me now. Feel sick as well, which I sometimes get when I'm really tired. Aghhhhh keep going, keep going, and I will sleep well tonight!!!

becky I can't believe people told you to take a zopiclone every night for two weeks, that's awful. When they prescribe 14 tablets it's not to take every night, it's 14 to last you as long as you can ( that's how I see it anyway). My last lot of 14 tablets lasted me over a year!!

You did really well to get off them, I know they say you can't get addicted after just 2 weeks, but your body certainly does get more accustomed to having them after that time. They kind of rob you of natural sleep too. I only take one now if I'm really really desperate, like on the 3rd night of very bad sleep, which thankfully, is very rare now.

I don't blame you for being scared of medication. In many ways I am the same as you. I am definitely not one to stay on medication ad infinitum. However, mirtazapine is not addictive, and I have proved that you can get off it without any ill effects. I think it helped me when I was really desperate, and now that I have learnt lots more coping strategies for insomnia, I am ready to get off it, because I can manage it in other ways. Having that period of lovely sleep and reduced anxiety was a brilliant respite though.

It's good you have been referred for CBT. It does seem like a long time to wait, but I bet the time will fly by.

How are you doing now arcadia and orangeflutie? I hope you've got through today even though I'm sure it must have been tough.

I am dreading tonight because DD still has a really runny nose and there isn't much prospect of us getting much sleep. Ironically now I can sleep DD won't. Me and DP are going to negotiate who does what overnight to both get some sleep, but the exchanges since he got home have been pretty terse. We have a wedding to go to tomorrow. My mum is having DD tomorrow and overnight but I haven't told her yet that DD has had bad nights lately. It's the first time mum's done an overnight and will probably be the last.

Feeling so negative today about everything. That I won't manage at work. That DP and I aren't getting on these days. That I can't bear being tired.

I Just feel like I shouldn't have had a child if I can't cope with broken nights and being tired .

I was enjoying her so much til this bout of her sleeping badly again. I feel really angry with her which is so horrible of me .

GetDown it was all down to a really ignorant health visitor who promised me I would not get addicted if I took them for two weeks or more. My stupid mother who said the same and DH who just thought addiction to sleeping tablets beated having weeping, wailing sleep deprived wife. They were all a force to be reckoned with and luckily it was DH I managed to convince first that I did not want to take them for more than two weeks. My mum was really horrible to me when I told her. She hadn't been happy about me stopping the fluoxitine after 3 days either saying 'you didn't give it a chance'. I don't blame her really. She thought she had my best interests at heart. The health visitor, however, should have known better. I didn't see her then for months. I could have become addicted and / or suicidal for all she knew. The last time she'd seen me I'd been crying on the sittingroom floor saying 'I'm so tired, I'm so tired, help me, I can't cope'. Rant over! Health visitors in this area are rubbish!!!!

Anyway, knowing me I'll just plod on for a bit longer, dithering again the next time I have a bad night.

Arcadia crossed posts. Have you dosed her up with calpol? It might help. It's so hard when you and your DP are both tired / needing sleep. She might surprise you. She's probably really tired after last night.

It will get better (as in DD's sleep). By the time they are one year it does get better and they do sleep much better, even when they are full of cold. I promise! DS1 was awful for the first year - esp when he was ill. Now (ok he is six now) he sleeps really well.

I used to get really cross and upset about DS1. It's a natural reaction.

The first year is very hard!!!! I keep saying to DH 'I don't deserve to have these three lovely boys' and he gets really cross with me. So the same to you. You are coping better than you think, I am sure. The fact you care so much means you are a good mum xxx

oh arcadia am so sorry things seem pretty bleak at the moment. As becky says, dose her up on calpol, I think you can give a dose of calprofen at the same time too.

Lack of sleep does erode away at your relationship, but it's good in a way that you will have this wedding tomorrow - time together without DD. Try to talk to DP about how you are feeling and ask him about how he is feeling too. Having a DC totally turns your world upside down, he may be feeling pretty run down and bewildered with it all too.

It definitely gets better after the first year. As you said before you are a chatty person and it's frustrating caring for this little being that doesn't talk! When she starts talking I bet your heart will melt with the hilarious and gorgeous things she comes out with! I recommend keeping a book of all the funny things she says, it's hilarious to look back on!

I'm sure every mother has had a day when she has questioned whether she should have ever had children. Remember that saying that goes something like "nothing that's worth doing and that brings great reward, is easy". Having a child is so incredibly challenging but also incredibly rewarding.

Hope you all have good nights tonight.

I am off to watch Avatar on our new Blu ray DVD player!

Becky and Arcadia hope you have better nights tonight. GetDown is right Arcadia it definitely gets easier as your DCs get older. I remember people saying it would when my DDs were very small. The trouble is when you're really tired it's difficult to believe.

I had three under five at one time and am actually not sure how I got through it. Years of not sleeping!

I'm feeling really tired at the moment but don't want to go to bed too early in case I just lie there.

Hope you enjoy Avatar GetDown

Hi all

I didn't post this morning as I was very down and very tired after another bad night and there were enough of us feeling rubbish.. I texted my friend at 7am to say I can't take another 5 nights of this.

Didn't have a good day and ended in tears after dh called and shouted at ds who was naughty and then when I told him off burst into tears and went daddydaddydaddy.

Tonight have been lifted by friends who made sure to get in touch and keep me company, even if just on fb. So feeling ok now, just hope I sleep.

Sorry you had a bad day yesterday madmouse I always cry too if DH is away and he rings. And it's even worse if you've not slept well. DD always says "I want daddy" if I tell her off!!! They know how to make you feel bad. Thing is, she says "I want mummy" if DH tells her off! So it's just a game really. I find the first few nights of them being away are the worst, and then you kind of "get into the groove" and it gets easier.

My DH went to work at 5am this morning! Didn't even hear him leave, just a note on the worktop when I went down. There is some kind of problem at the power station and he has to be there to sort it all out. Saturdays on my own feel harder than a weekday somehow. Thankfully he's got the bank holiday off.

How did we all sleep? I went for a jog at 6:30pm last night which made me feel all tingly and good inside. I love it. We watched Avatar in the evening but I got sooooo sleepy at about 10pm that I had to go to bed! Fell asleep pretty quickly I think, then woke up at 7, don't think I woke at all in the night! Hurrah!

How are the rest of us this morning?

I think I must have slept or 7 hours without waking - didn't like the dreams but woke up a bit brighter.

Getdown that sounds like an ideal night

yay madmouse!!! 7 hours is fab. Bet you will feel sooo much better today.

The sun is shining here... Contemplating another load of washing....

We're going to a 3 year old's birthday party later. DD is so excited!

Hi Madmouse and GetDown glad you had much better nights. The right kind of sleep is like magic isn't it? I felt quite teary when I went to bed last night which I'm sure was just because I felt so tired. In the end I fell asleep about 12.00 and didn't wake up until 7, so definitely a better night.

I'm going to see my little niece today and I'm hoping the sun keeps shining so all the girls can play in the garden.

Good morning all! I went to bed after watching half of 'The Boat that Rocked' with DH (DH is going to the cinema to watch Avatar this week as it is in 3D - I can't watch that film - tried three times each time I fell asleep!!!). Anyway, I went to bed at 10pm and couldn't get to sleep as I was too tired. Felt a little bit anxious but must have fallen asleep soon after as then woke at some point to go to loo and then again at 7.55am. So a good night. I always wake up the morning after the morning after a bad night feeling quite down though - stupid anxiety and stupid sleep problem! When will I get better?

Madmouse I did wonder where you were yesterday. You are doing very well - it's the weekend and he's back next week. As GetDown says you might actually 'get into the groove' now and get used to the routine without him here. That does happen to me and when DH comes back he leaves his suitecase with contents sprawled and I get cross with him for messing up the nice clean DH-free house!!!

Arcadia I realy hope you are ok today. Have a lovely day at the wedding. Talk to your DP about how you and him are feeling. It is a huge test on a relationship having a baby and it can be very bonding in the long run. It is important also to have time together without children. I am very guilty of not doing that - DH and I very rarely are together without the DSs.

Anyway, sun is shining, it's the weekend. Chins up everyone.

I need to convince myself that I can sleep well, I have been sleeping well, this has just been a horrible blip, I'm not returning to how I was in the winter, I will be fine and it'll get better and better. Do I sound convinced yet?

Bad night for me guys. Fell asleep about 1.30am after moving to spare bed in DS3's room :( Fed up. Brain just wouldn't shut up. Then slept fitfully the rest of the night. Even Paul McKenna didn't work :(

Pants squared this is.

PS What I don't get is that I am really happy at the moment. Life is good.

oh no becky

DH left for work yesterday at 4:30am!! (saturday morning) He called me about 6pm to say that thing were not going well and he was having to drive to Kent to get a part . He didn't want to get a hotel so he came back in the early hours last night. Think he got in around 2am. 22 hour day! Crazy!

Thankfully he didn't disturb me too much, and I had a decent night. DD got up at 7:30 this morning which felt like a relative lie in. Have brought her downstairs to watch CBeebies whilst DH has a lie-in.

Right, becky what are we going to do with you? Shall we sit you on the naughty step every time you have an anxious thought about sleep

How are you feeling today, do you think you had enough sleep to get by and feel reasonably positive today?

I don't really know what to suggest. You are doing all the right things. I can see why you wouldn't want to take ADs if life is generally happy and going well.

I can say that exercise has really helped me recently. I know it's hard to fit it in, but 30 minutes is time well spent for a good night's sleep IMO.

GetDown I don't know what to do about me! I do actually feel quite positive and not too bad today. Thing is, what is happening is when I feel myself falling asleep I'm waking myself up again and I don't know why. It is an anxiety thing. Last night what worked was getting up, having a glass of milk and a squirt of night-time rescue remedy and changing beds. And the good thing is I didn't wake up feeling anxious, which I normally do after a bad night. So I've got to see that as a positive.

I just need to go back to being better at 'letting go' when I can feel myself falling asleep - the last few nights I've lost the nack for some reason. Not sure why this 'blip' has happened to me. I can't think of any trigger really except the holiday ending and perhaps a bit of anxiety over my niece although she's almost back to normal now and getting on with her life again, despite the odd 'life is ' update on facebook'.

If you, the sleep guru, doesn't know what to suggest then perhaps I am a lost cause?

Ah well. Plod on, eh? In-laws for Sunday dinner today. Lots of happy happy small talk is in order!

Your poor DH!!!!!! I hope he has a good sleep-in this morning.

"sleep guru" HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are SO not a lost cause! Goodness me you have come a loooooooong way!

Anyway, I am lucky at the moment because I'm sleeping well. But you know as well as me, that when the tables are turned and I've had a bad night I am a gibbering anxious wreck!! And then it's YOU giving me the positive strokes

What about exercise though? Are you ignoring me?

I totally understand about the jolting awake thing when you are just drifting off. That was exactly my experience too. I found it soooo frustrating because it was almost like an autonomic reaction - something I could not control. So all this mind games business really did not help me.

The only thing I did find was that it did settle after a few days (nights). Sometimes after one night, sometimes after 2 weeks of bad nights. But it ALWAYS did go away.

In-laws - oh dear. Good luck!