Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will

[BeckyBendyLegs]

And here it is!

Actually DH is coming around to the idea of ADs as he sees that I need a bit of a break from this stress I am putting myself under. But I've been skepitcal about them too for ages and ages (partly because I felt so crap taking fluoxitine). I've learnt a lot more about them though and recently found out my niece has taken and is back on the same sort you and CountryLover take as she says she has had big anxiety and insomnia issues. She also said, interestingly, she's never had any problems coming off them (one of my worries).

hi becky yeah you slept!

That's right, not caring if you don't sleep is the way to go. I know it's hard though.

Bacon butties - yum. However, no bacon butties for me, I am feeling really fat from eating loads on holiday and hardly doing any exercise! Bran flakes for me

Welcome back Getdown and wel done on the TTC - you will be ok - we will see you through it

Becky I knew you would sleep!!

Sleep not such a problem for me right now apart from dreaming a lot. Tiredness still is - how long will it take to catch up

by the way Getdown I was always madmouse until I got so poorly that it didn't fit anymore - so taking it back is very significant!

excellent madmouse - I do remember your name before but never made the connection

So glad to hear you are making significant progress, that is fantastic. Are you still taking the SJW?

Am so glad I have you guys to help me through, should I get pregnant (not assuming anything - just if it happens)

Also will be lovely to share it with people in the early weeks when I can't tell anyone in RL..

Glad that you are sleeping ok. I don't know what you can do about the dreams, but I do know they are your mind's way of sorting out stuff in your head, so try to think of them as restorative and healing, rather than negative.

x

Getdown I am still taking SJW and I think it was that that made it possible to take this step forward so I'm planning to treat it as a normal anti-depressant and stay on it for a few months after starting to feel better IYSWIM. Unless...well I'm hoping to conceive at some point too so then I'll have to stop at the same time as anxiety probably kicking in but cross that bridge when I get there.

I will tell RL friends straight away when it happens - I think they will need to know so they can stop me worrying myself to death and well I didn't manage to keep quiet last time....

You know about the worrying... I am reading a really good book at the moment, which addresses worrying, stress, anxiety, depression etc.

Battlefield of the Mind

Would you consider reading it with me and we can encourage each other along the way?

Gaah I'm really rather anxious today - realise I'm worrying about a few too many things and it's becoming one of my infamous tangles....have talked a bit to dh which helped a little.

7 year old dd of best friend has started acting 'sexy' (her words!)- wiggling, dropping top off shoulder etc and it terrifies me and all I can think is that some horrible man will come and abuse her and tell her it's her fault and she wanted it - which in turn makes me even more scared to have a dd of my own, yet my friend came with her baby yesterday and I am so broody, but I'm scared i will worry too much and what if the next baby also stops breathing after 12 hours or I can't cope with the worrying...gaah. And then a few more things on top of that, mostly worrying about others who are not well..

so having said that....Battlefield of the Mind. Erm, sorry not a big fan of JM - quite a big difference in theology and I don't really connect what she writes, also don't quite agree that all my worries are an attack, they come from my experiences and need to be conquered a different way.

Rather support you in different ways if that is ok

Hi everyone, madmouse deep breath! History never repeats itself in the same way, your experience with your new baby will be different from your DS. I'm so excited that you and GetDown are in the TTCing game - I kind of miss it now I know I'll never be TTCing again - lots of mid-week rumpy pumpy :)

It's hot in Wales today - DH and DS2 are at the beach and me, DS1 and DS3 are here (DS3 asleep). I stupidly forgot my swimming costume so can't go in the sea! DS1 and DS2 have been in the sea and DH even had a paddle!

Fair enough madmouse just saying it's helping me, that's all. I don't really know about her theology. In my case I think a lot of my anxieties are attacks. I think being in the grip of previous experiences can be an attack too.

Hi becky - glad to hear it's hot there in Wales! It's warm here too, and windy, which is great as I've done 5 loads of washing and it's nearly all dry!!

I know what you mean about the TTC-ing - it is exciting, although I am not as excited about the mid-week rumpy pumpy - would rather just go to sleep (hopefully!) rumpy pumpy usually ends up with a bad night's sleep for me!! But I am BBT-ing this time so have more of an idea of where I am in my cycle so hopefully it won't be such a random approach this time!!

Have a great holiday.x

Getdown I'm not sure I expressed myself very well there - hope I didn't offend you .

I agree with you on the attacks - that's where I expressed myself badly. But I believe I need to heal from the past and then the anxiety will normalise - and that healing is really happening with the help of my counsellor and (lots of prayer from Christian) friends.

On the TTC front we are not counting anything or specifically doing things on certain days so we expect it to take a bit longer...

No it's ok madmouse I know you didn't mean it badly.

I hope you don't mind me sharing a bit of an observation? It's just I get the impression you are very good at helping and supporting others, but not so good at accepting help and support for yourself.

I know I am often guilty of this too. However, you can help others by being open to their support too. It reminds me of that song "brother, sister let me serve you, may I have the grace to let you be my servant too".

Anyway, it seems like you are on the "up" so I am very pleased for you It's great you have friends praying for you, I guess that is a way you are showing you accept support, so sorry if I'm way off the mark.

With the TTC-ing, we need to avoid certain times of the year because of DH's work, also I want to avoid winter as DD was a December baby and I'm sure it didn't help the depression. That's why we're trying to plan the date a bit more. But I know it doesn't always work out how you plan with these things!!

Getdown that's a really astute observation and certainly very much true of the old me. As I felt I had totally no value and that i really matter helping others was one thing i could do to exist and I really did not think i deserved any help for myself.

At the same time supporting others is very important to me, also because if I can't then the living nightmare of the past year and a half has been for nothing...Also every time I have said to someone else that the abuse wasn't their fault I have had to admit that it was the same for me- it has helped me too.

I have a friend who I can phone late at night and who is fantastic at telephone support (she lives abroad but has been over twice to support me), I have my big brother friend who is really good for 5am texts and for hugs and helping me to talk things through face to face when I get tangled up in the pain and the stress. There are others who know and who I will talk to. It's been a hard thing to learn to accept support and to accept that people like and love me and want to help. And I guess one thing to watch out for now is that I mustn't start thinking I need to do it all alone again now because I'm better. I know there is a danger. So I was secretly relieved when my friend said in church this morning 'How are you, are you struggling a bit this morning', like he validated what I was still feeling (and what he obviously could still see in my face).

Sorry this is getting very long...I have changed my mind - it doesn't do to e dismissive so quickly. Will get a cheap copy of the book and give it a go (getting to the point of not reading 'courage to heal' every night anymore) and if I can get into it I will let you know and then we can maybe fb about it?

BBTing? What's that?

We had to do a lot of mid-week rumpy pumpy when we tried for DS3 because it was taking so long! Poor DH would come home from work really tired and I'd jump on him :) I thought it was supposed to relax you and make you sleepy? I think it does me, haven't noticed it affect my sleep anyway. It certainly makes DH sleep, in that instead of five minutes it take five seconds for him to fall asleep!

BBT = Basal Body Temperature charting. You basically take your temp first thing in the morning before getting out of bed, record it on a chart. When you have ovulated your temp goes up. It's amazing to see the chart each month! You can also reliably predict when your period is going to arrive which I find really helpful. One time I put a pad on, knowing it was due, and within an hour my period had started!

It does rely on you remembering to take it every day (sometimes I forget!) and it's also messed up when you haven't slept (temps are much higher) so that's a bit of a bummer! Some of my charts are a mess because of bloomin insomnia! It's a useful diary of my bad nights too - amazing how lack of sleep affects your body in these kind of measurable ways.

Also it's useful for me as I have a reeaaaaaally long cycle (6 weeks) - so obviously I have less chance of conceiving "without trying" IYKWIM, so this gives us a better chance.

It should make me sleep better, but doesn't for some reason. Annoying as DH falls asleep instantly...

Thanks madmouse for your gracious post. What you've been through, it's no wonder you had feelings of not being valued / worth support etc. I am so sorry. But I'm so glad you are coming through that now!! What an amazing story of restoration! I know it's not a finished story but an ongoing challenge but you are doing so well!

No worries about the book, if it's not for you, it's not for you! Please don't get it on my account. I don't agree with everything she says in the book (take your point about perhaps overemphasising attack etc.) however, she has a lot of helpful things to say e.g. tackling negativity, bad thought patterns, having a busy mind that leaves no space for thought, listening to God in the "quiet whisper" rather than blocking Him... you can take the good bits and leave the not so good bits!

Good morning! I hope everyone slept well. I did despite DS1 being sick again (from coughing), and alarm clock going off in DS3's room at 5am, and having to sleep next to a total duvet hogger of a DH in a tiny bed. Another sunny day in Wales!

BBTing - sounds interesting. DH did try to get me to take my temperature when we were TTCing but I kept forgetting.

help. having a nightmare time. DD suddenly won't sleep properly at night. Night before last she was awake 2 til 4am screaming. then last night didn't get off til 12am, up at six, and up every hour or hour and half in between. She's on terrible mood in day time too. DP now gone to work and I'm on my own. PsIL are away - usually would help. My mum not much help. Don't know how I'm going to cope. Am feeling myself getting really angry with DD.

had just got to the point of sleeping better and even managing to come of the nytol three nights ago and going completely pill free and now this happens.

I know this is part of having a baby but I don't know how i'm going to cope with it. sleep is so emotive for me.

Hi arcadia I am really sorry to hear you are struggling at the moment . No wonder on so little sleep. It?s so frustrating when they scream at night and it seems there is nothing you can do and you can?t understand what the problem is. I don?t blame you for your feelings of frustration towards DD. It is very hard to deal with. However, keep reminding yourself this is the only way she can communicate with you ? it gets much easier when they use words!! It is not a personal criticism against you, it is just her way of saying she doesn?t feel quite right. It?s extra hard when you have nights like that after long periods of them sleeping well at night. In the early days you expect it, but when they are older it can be harder to deal with because you know they should be able to sleep through the night and it comes as a bit of a shock.

You can survive on little sleep. You have proved that to yourself before. I only got 4 hours last night not because of DD but because of my brain whizzing. I stupidly got fixated on something that happened to me whilst I was in the psychiatric hospital ? something I?d forgotten, but was on my letter from the peri-natal specialist. It was going round and round my brain and I felt the anxiety rising. However, even on 4 hours I don?t feel too bad today. A lot of it is about controlling your thoughts I think. In the light of day, the thing I was worrying about doesn?t seem nearly so bad today! Things always seem worse at night. Yes, you won't feel your best today, but keep reminding yourself that part of your bad feelings are down to your thoughts.

It's so hard that DD is grumpy. Can you go to a friend's house with a similar age baby, it always helps I find to get out the house and have a laugh about it with someone in the same situation.

If it?s any comfort, you are doing SO well! You?ve stopped the Nytol which is fantastic. This is just a blip, your DD will get into a good sleeping habit again. No question about it. You just have to hang in there. Could you cut short her daytime nap, and maybe do something with her like swimming to make her extra tired.. You will be ok. You really will. xxx

Thanks GetDown for your sympathy and advice! Good advice and some of it I'd thought of already, like taking her for a swim tomorrow.
I've been looking into it and there is a massive developmental change at 37 weeks and sleep regression is well known at 8 months apparently (she had it at 4 months too - otherwise a pretty good sleeper!).
somehow we are getting through the day. Have put up photos of her iin happier times/better mood to remind me how much I love her!
I'm just about to meet to of my closest friends at the children's centre. Am determined to get out despite bad night. I need to be around people, as you say.
DP has also said I can call him at any point today.
DD slept for nearly two hours later this morning but I had no idea she would so didn't try and get back to sleep - don't think I could have anyway, was feeling too stressed out.
Will not let her sleep too much more today but she'd have been in a terrible mood if I'd woken her.
Don't feel too bad at the mo - just a throw back to those awful early days of feeling shattered again, though I must remind myself I have improved and that there isn't the same accumulation of sleep deprivation as before.

Sorry about your bad night GetDown. I'm not surprised you have bad memories sometimes about what happened. i still get kind of flash backs to when i first had DD and was in a real state.

You're doing well too and I have been half following the thread though we were away last week.

Settting off now and DD whingeing! Speak to you later!

Arcadia DS1 went through a terrible time at 8 months, DS3 still wakes once or twice a night so I can't tell with him but when DH was away last week I had moaning for 1 1/2 hour and I just ended up sleeping in the same room as him (then later had DS1 wanting to sleep in bed with me and DS2 waking up too - it was a hellish night).

I have the same problem - the memories of how horrible sleep deprivation feels when you are stressed too - but we've both come on soooo far since those early days. It's hard to remember that when you're feeling shattered though I know as I was there on Friday! Keep going, keep smiling, tomorrow might be better.

Thanks becky hope you're having a good hol.
Just a quick one. DP is putting DD down.
Feel rubbish this evening - headachey and even a bit shaky.
I hate being so bothered by it and the fact that other people just deal with their babies not sleeping very well but because of my own problems with sleep it takes on a much greater significance.
I'm fed up of being stressed all the time when I have got nothing to be stressed about really.

When did DS1's sleep get better again, do you remember?

oh dear arcadia sorry you are feeling rubbish. You are extra tired so you will sleep well tonight, I know you will!!

Other people may appear to deal with their babies not sleeping well, but I bet behind closed doors they are not what they may appear. We are very good at hiding our struggles really. And I bet your mummy friends think you are coping great too!

Don't panic, this is a phase.

What's happened about your job situation, has your boss let you do part time? When do you start, do you think this is playing on your mind?

hi getDown. I was feeling really happy actually (well, relatively speaking!) as I had sorted out part time with my boss and negotiated a slightly higher salary too. I was getting my head round it all and feeling really positive.
I was no longer really having trouble sleeping, this is just DD waking me up, and I managed to get back to sleep between each time, so it's not the 'old' problem as such it is just triggering me worrying again (self fulfilling prophecy or what!). She's been OK this evening though so fingers crossed for tonight.

It just seems with babies that every time you feel you have a handle on things it all changes again. she is trying to do everything herself, poor little thing, and wants to cuddle me then pushes against me, she's all confused! She has been through such a lovely phase so I guess it's just another development leap (maybe working up to crawling).

PLEASE tell me again it gets easier when they are older! I do adore her but still worry sometimes that I've made a mistake which is such a horrible thing to think.

I went to the GP this afternoon about my hand I've strained lumping DD around I think, and he was useless. He also mentioned when I'd seen him when DD was 2 weeks old (when he told me I'd go mad if I didn't sleep!) and said how worried he was etc., and how bad I was and it was unusual to see a new mum in such a bad way etc. Yes, I thought, thanks for reminding me, and funny how he didn't see fit to refer me on to anyone at the time, just left me to sink or swim!

oh dear that doctor sounds awful! Time for a change I think!!

I promise it DOES get easier as they get older. For me, I found the first year of motherhood the hardest period in my whole life.

Seeing DD now, her talking, with her little "opinions" - sharing her thoughts and feelings with me, it's just magic. I love her so much.

The first year was a struggle and I had similar thoughts to what you describe like "what have I done, this is not how it's supposed to be". But it really is so much better now, it really is!

Hope you have a good night xx

Arcadia Nathan woke up to six times a night as a baby - from when he was about 11/12 months he has slept 12 hours a night - he loves his sleep, bad nights are rarely his fault.

It will get better and you will cope!!! We mums are designed to cope with it - sturdy stuff

I'm not sleeping too badly at the moment, just was dreaming again so much that I woke up shattered!! Grrrrr.

'It just seems with babies that every time you feel you have a handle on things it all changes again.' Arcadia that's exactly what parenthood is like I'm afraid but it does get better. The sleep thing for one doesn't last forever.

DS1's phase lasted about two weeks. At the time I was obsessed with not installing bad habits such as cuddling him to sleep, etc. Now I realise I could have been a bit more relaxed about it. When DS1 was born I was really, really worried about sleep problems. I'm much more relaxed with DS3 (perhaps why he still wakes us up every night!).

As GetDown says the first year is definitely the hardest. I found it really hard with DS1 but I hid so much of it from everyone. I thought it was just me at the time as everyone else seemed to be doing fine but it is so true that people hide so much of it.

I slept well last night - falling asleep watching the end of Jaws with DH. I have been having a glass of wine every night (since we're on holiday) but not worrying about it (it does take DH and I three days to drink one bottle of wine between us!). I know it doesn't make me sleep! It was a day on the beach that made me so tired yesterday. DS2 was so tired he was asleep on the sofa at 6pm and I had to undress him and carry him to bed!!!

GetDown just been looking at your holiday photos - lovely, lovely, lovely! The cottage you stayed in looks divine too and the sea... I want to live by the sea.

It is raining today so we're off to Aberywysthyth (can't spell).