Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will

[BeckyBendyLegs]

And here it is!

Actually DH is coming around to the idea of ADs as he sees that I need a bit of a break from this stress I am putting myself under. But I've been skepitcal about them too for ages and ages (partly because I felt so crap taking fluoxitine). I've learnt a lot more about them though and recently found out my niece has taken and is back on the same sort you and CountryLover take as she says she has had big anxiety and insomnia issues. She also said, interestingly, she's never had any problems coming off them (one of my worries).

Sadly no it is a body shop party so DH staying at home! I'd love to go to the cinema with DH. We never go out together.

Just popping in again to say hi and hope everyone is ok.
I had a couple of ok nights but am back to the waking at 4am grrr. Can't complain really as it isn't constant, but just so frustrated at being tired all the time but unable to sleep. Wish I had a switch to flick my active mind off!
Maybe there will be some nice lavender massage/bath stuff at the Body Shop party Becky? (lovely) DP bought me some lavender massage oil from Body Shop and gives me a massage before bed to help me sleep - so relaxing
Have you ladies heard about rubbing the bottom of your heel before bed? Not sure if this is accurate or old wives' tale, but apparently there is a pressure point there so rubbing the heel with some massage oil is supposed to help you sleep. Not sure if it is true but sometimes works for me (probably coincidental but sometimes a placebo helps!)

Never heard of the heel thing! Sounds interesting. I'll give it a go. My problem most nights is early waking, which I can deal with - I tend to toss and turn a lot from about 4am onwards. But when I can't get to sleep in the first place and then wake 2 hours after falling asleep with a knot of anxiety in my stomach it is hell! At the moment this is happening only about once ever 2-3 weeks so livable perhaps, albeit a pain in the backside.

Sorry you had a bad night .

I do agree that you are doing so much. I know there are no easy answers to that but you shouldnt beat yourself up about not always coping - when you have such a lot on your late. Hope tonight is easier.

I managed a bit better yesterday but then today low has hit again - its so frustrating. Have booked a cbt session for next week so will let you know how it goes.

x

Hi all

I went to bed at 11 (early for me) after cleaning the whole of downstairs and playing some guitar and struggled to fall asleep but once I was I didn't wake until 6min before the alarm!

Why doesn't it make me feel better - good thing I have 35mins to cycle before i start work.

Shattered.

Hi all. I went to this bodyshop party last night (I don't really like these sort of parties either but it was with friends so we had a great time). I got back at 11.30pm. I worried a bit about getting to sleep but I was so shattered I guess that my body just shut down after about half an hour or so. I woke up at 6.40am to the sound of DS3 moaning down the baby monitor.

Still dithering about whether to try homeopathy for the anxiety or St John's Wort? Any thoughts, welcome. I know WillSurvive you have just started taking SJW but too soon to notice any benefits I guess. I'm just fed up of the anxiety and the obsessions with sleep. Boring, boring, boring.

Becky I told you (on fb) that you would have a good night!!!

By 10.15 last night i couldn't think of a reason to stay up, went up, did a bit of ironing and was in bed by 11. Slept badly though, dh waking me at about 6 to say I was making noises and could I stop. I remembered feeling scared and needing comfort and not knowing why and dh not responding when i talked to him. Then very deep sleep from 6.30 until 8.30 - yurgh. Feel drained. I don't need many hours of sleep - can cope quite happily on 5 or so. It's the restlessness and bad quality sleep that gets me.

Becky I think the SJW is starting to work. In any event I haven't had any 'bad' thoughts for a few days even though I haven't been feeling well. But that may be due to life on the surface being fairly stable too.

I read up on it some more and it seems side effects go in your favour (sedation, sleepiness) but there is little or no evidence that it is effective in anxiety (like the SSRIs are)

WillSurvive I'm sorry you didn't have the best night. I know that feeling: heavy sleep in the morning. You wake up feeling really crappy.

I really don't know what to do about taking anything. I've been dithering for 7 months now and I'll probably keep dithering for more months. I don't even know if this is 'PND' or what. I hate being an anxious person. I hate it. Grrrrrrrr.

Hi everyone! How are we all?
Got back from holiday yesterday. What a manic few days! Went with two other couples and their children, so there were 6 adults and 4 children in total. Not exactly a relaxing holiday! Loads of mess loads of washing up, lots of screaming and overexcited children who didn?t want to go to bed! The kids had a great time though. It was a massive house with a huge garden complete with swings, tree houses, ride on cars etc. And there was a heated swimming pool too which was looovely!
Was tainted for me by, you guessed it, the sleep issue . Slept fine the night before we went and so the first day I was fresh and felt fine. But sleeping there was an absolute nightmare! The first night I didn?t get to sleep till 5am ? then up at 7 , so 2 hours sleep in total. That day was hard ...we went to Drusillas zoo so was a manic day. I just felt soooo tired, but had to get on with it. The second night I took a zopiclone so slept but not natural sleep IYSWIM. The third night I ended up taking 3 diazepam . Took two hoping it would send me off, then when it didn;t I took a third one in total desperation at about 3am! Still didn?t get to sleep till about 4 so yet again a rubbish night! What is wrong with me????!?!? The others all slept fine. They just said, oh I slept because I was just soooo tired! Well, yes, so was I, so why couldn?t I sleep?
We came home yesterday (a day early) because I was starting to actually feel ill through lack of sleep (stomach aches, headaches, nausea etc.). Last night I had a bath about 7 and thankfully slept in my own bed ok without resorting to the drugs. Just feel really disappointed in myself that I couldn?t fully relax and enjoy the holiday because the horrid sleep issue was just hanging over me and making me miserable. That said, with all the distraction I didn?t mope about but just got on with things after a bad night. I found it quite helpful to think of my insomnia as an illness that kind of ?flares up? from time to time. Don?t know if others find it helpful to think of it like that too....
Tomorrow I have my referral appointment to the perinatal mental health specialist to talk about TTC our second child. I am quite nervous. Had a chat with DH on holiday about it and he thinks I am putting too much pressure on myself to have another baby next year, and he seemed to think we could wait a few more years. the thing is when I have slept, I feel so ready to have another baby, I would just love to complete our family, DD would absolutely adore a brother or sister, we have the room in our house, we are ready in every way, except for this stupid sleep issue. How can I just stop it ruining my life, and our family plans? Anyway, will talk about all this at the appointment tomorrow.
Hope you are all doing ok, I see you?ve had a few bad nights becky - sorry to hear that. Not even mr Paul Mckenna could help me this time round .
xx

Oh GetDown you poor thing! Going on holiday can be incredibly stressful. Before my current 'sleep issues' started I often slept badly on holiday (although it never turned me into a stress ball before now - I'd just get on with it and by the third night my body would have adjusted to the strange bed). Even when I was a child I remember sleeping badly in strange beds - I can remember staying at my grandparents house and my grandma making me hot chocolate at 11pm in an effort to help me sleep! Not everyone suffers like this I know and many people (such as my DH) will sleep anywhere, but I know of one friend who like me always struggles to sleep well in strange beds / strange houses. Do you think you expected to have bad sleep there? I wonder if you did, then that, in an annoying way, meant that you were bound to have bad sleep. I find my sleep is bad quite often when I expect it to be bad for whatever reason.

I had a bad night on Thursday, as you may have seen here, but Friday and Saturday nights have been good. Last night I fell asleep watching a film with DH and then conked in bed from 10pm-7am and that was pure bliss. So I know I can sleep. Just as you know you can sleep as you said before you went away. This insomnia isn't going to beat you.

The TTCing issue is difficult because the more pressure you put on yourself to be ready, the harder it may be. So perhaps rather than putting a deadline on when to start you should just go with the flow, come off the mirtazapine (are you still on half doses?) and one day wake up, say to your DH, 'let's start now'.

Getdown you are so hard on yourself. You are doing really really well sleeping in your own bed at home and that is huge progress. It is a real shame you struggled on holiday but not a surprise. It will go better next time when you are more confident in your ability to sleep (hey presto PST just for you!)

Re TTC, is there really such a hurry? I'm nearly 36 and was planning to TTC when Nathan was 9 months, he's 2.5 now and we are still miles off, mostly due to my MH and dh's. i reckon if I had conceived last year it would have left me seriously in danger of harming myself. I'd be ok if very scared to conceive now. Looking back it has been for the best. Nathan has our full attention which helps his development as we see anything new he does and are quick to help him as we are not distracted by a younger sibling.

I've just sneaked on fb and seen that you are a baby compared to me. Plenty of time yet - there is no perfect or ideal age...

So maybe not delay TTC, but realise it doesn't really matter if it takes a while and just take it easy.

I was a month shy of 38 when I had DS3... I've stopped having babies now but not because of age, because I have three and that's plenty for me!

thank you both - so much. You are so kind to me

becky yes I always had trouble sleeping in unfamiliar places even before the dreaded PND. I suppose it would be about midnight though before I got to sleep, as opposed to 5am! Also would only really be the first night, rather than then night after night too. But I think this was exacerbated by the fact we had friends there too and their kids. When just DH, DD and I went to the Isle of Wight earlier in the year I slept ok.

I don't think I did expect to sleep badly tho... in fact I had really tried to put into practise my CBT in advance, thinking I was going to really enjoy the holiday, make an effort to suggest things to do, be really "positive" about everything. I don't want to be labelled as the "whingey needy" one in our group of friends . Maybe I had subconsciously put pressure on myself to be something I wasn't, I don't know. But it was that familiar feeling we've described so well of not being particularly anxious about anything, just unable to switch off. Glad you had a lovely blissful night last night. As you say, this insomnia won't beat us!

thanks willsurvive - do you really think I am hard on myself? I don't think I am, I just find being me so frustrating at times!! Perhaps you are both right about the TTC-ing. I am 30, so I suppose there's no particular rush, other than I wouldn't like there to be a huge age gap between DD and the next one. My mum and her sister are 8 years apart and my mum said it was always like being an only child, and they weren't particularly close as they didn't have much in common. Her sis was only 10 when my mum went off to university for example. I don't want to leave it too long, also the fear of infertility or abnormalities in the baby as you age... I know these are just irrational fears but they are there nonetheless. I don't think I could cope with the guilt if I left it too long and then couldn't conceive, or if my baby was somehow disadvantaged by me in some way.... I don't know. I know it must seem crazy to an outsider, but I just feel that now is the right time.... even though the insomnia still lurks at my door, and even bits of the depression seem to be creeping back in.... (but am trying to keep it at bay). I just long for a baby even though the last one nearly killed me!!! Crazy I know. My psychiatrist cannot really understand why I would want another baby. I suppose it's just nature's way.. you forget all the bad stuff so that you will have another.

willsurvive - do you think you will have another some day? I totally agree BTW about giving your one child all your attention - our DD has really benefitted I can see that... and things like the potty training went so well compared to friends I have that are also battling with the demands of a tiny newborn at the same time.

Getdown we are trying without trying, ie no anti-conception. But the way things are at present it could take a while...

GetDown I agree with WillSurvive you are very hard on yourself (and I am on myself too as I get told on here when I am down on myself for 'giving in' to insomnia). In fact we all do it!

For what it is worth my brother is six years older than me and my sister is five years and there was one wobbly period when they reached pubity and didn't want to play with me anymore but other than that we had a great childhood together. I was in bits when my brother left home (he was 19, I was 13). Then when my sister left home a few years later (I think I was 16) I had two (actually rather blissful) years of being an only child!

Having said that if you feel in your gut that now is the right time then go with your gut instinct. I am a big fan of gut instincts! Go With The Flow! That's my advice. My DH is a Think With Your Head and I am a Think With Your Heart type. Just imagine the rows we had over choosing a new house when we moved up here.
'But it's so lovely' me.
'But it doesn't have any parking spaces' DH.
'It's really nice and oldy worldy' me.
'It's on the River Severn, it'll flood every year!' DH. 'And what's more the ceilings are too low and I'm six foot five!'
'You are so picky!' me.

I hope everyone slept ok last night. I had one of my usual - get to sleep fine but restless / wakeful with weird dreams in the morning nights. I can live with that though.

Wish me luck: taking all three DSs to Charlbury (where we used to live, near Oxford) for the day - 102 miles away! I might cry a bit when we're there, I loved living there.

WillSurvive just seen your FB status. Poor you and poor DS. I hope he feels better today.

Hi all

I hope you have a lovely day out becky - good on you for doing challenging things!
willsurvive I haven?t checked FB today ? hope you are ok?

Terrible night again for me

Am worried this insomnia is getting a grip on me again. That?s quite a few bad nights now in recent weeks. I went to bed feeling sooo tired but just couldn?t sleep. In the end my lovely DH got up and made me a de-caff tea at about 1:30am and we sat up together with the bedside light on reading for a while. It did help a bit but still had a terrible night, maybe 4 hours sleep in total. Woke up with that terrible pain in my tummy and just feeling sick and generally anxious and ill.

Had my appointment this morning with the perinatal specialist. Maybe that was subconsciously playing on my mind last night, I don?t know. Anyway, it was really really helpful. She was lovely and basically so supportive. So much nicer, kinder and more understanding that the regular psychiatrist. She actually spoke to me like an equal ? like an actual human being, rather than just a diagnosis from their stupid manual.

She said if I got pregnant she would accept me as her patient and she would take over my care from the local CMHT. She said that there are loads of options that could be explored, to try and keep me well and stop me going down hill postnatally. And a lot of these options didn?t even include drugs (I am so scared of taking drugs during pregnancy and harming the baby). She even said she would write to the obstetrician and if I wanted, ask for an elective caesarean. This appeals slightly as the birth last time was so traumatic (9 day hospital stay, blood transfusion etc) and I basically started off motherhood feeling totally wiped out last time. If I could by-pass all that maybe I wouldn?t get ill so badly? Who knows. I do know that caesareans are not the easy option though, abdominal surgery does scare the life out of me. But the thought of not having 24hrs of utter agony followed by tearing, blood loss, knackered pelvic floor and subsequent incontinence? well, you can see the appeal.

The knowledge that I would be monitored and supported through my possible pregnancy was very comforting. I think the terrifying thing last time was going to the GP and basically feeling that there was no-one else other than him who could help me. And he didn?t seem to know what to do with me. I remember falling on the floor of the GPs office, lying face down and saying I wanted to die . I simply didn?t realise there were perinatal services that could help me. I just thought it was the GP and that was it. It was a terrifying, lonely, desperate feeling. Also knowing what I know now? that I was able to come through it and have periods of being really well and happy again, and I didn?t know if that would happen. First time round I didn?t know if I would ever get better. Now I know I can get better (albeit with some lingering insomnia problems).

Sorry to rant on about me again. That?s all I seem to be good for at the moment. I do hope you are all doing ok. Thanks for the PST willsurvive - I could do with a few more of those!!

x

Getdown ds was sick all night, about every two hours from his bedtime, either throwing up or obviously feeling very sick and scared.

In between anxiety got a hold so I slept from erm 5-6.30... ds was totally sparko when I got up for work, did not even respond to being prodded bless him but greeted dh with a huge smile when he finally woke at 10am. Poor mite gets so misreable when all he wants to do is sleep and things get in the way of that. Much plaintive crying.

I rang home at 11am and ds had drunk water, eaten a 3rd of a banana and was talking at the telly ...

Getdown yes obviously you had a bad night worrying about today's appointment - is it ok if I call you a silly sausage - it's what a good friend does with me when I'm being very silly. You are sleeping fine at the moment - you are just still tired from the trip and your bad night - don't let things get out of proportion.

That psych sounds so lovely almost worth getting pregnant for to get her care...

Becky have a good day today.

Of course you can call me a silly sausage I would rather be called a silly sausage than an insomniac!!!

Yes, she is lovely, and you're right it is almost worth getting pregnant, just to be treated by her. Am thinking of writing a letter to say how great she is, I bet all they ever deal with is complaints. It would be nice for someone who is genuinely lovely and helpful to get some acknowledgement.

Sorry DS was sick It's so awful when they're ill and there's nothing you can do to make it better. You would rather be ill yourself than watch them go through it. The fact he is drinking and has had some banana is a very good sign, they bounce back very quickly from sickness bugs.

I really hope you are right. You are going to call me a silly sausage again but I have just frightened the life out of myself by reading this and then this when sleep doesn't come, death does

Arrrgggh. My anxiety is running away with itself. I need to STOP.

That's more silly Tesco's ENTIRE meat department than silly sausage - HOW did you find it and WHY???

40 families worldwide - you do the maths.

You don't have that

honest x

Go engage your brain with something positive for a bit so it can subside

you're right. Of course you're right. The internet is an evil thing!

Oh GetDown!!!!!

I'm just off to bed now - we had a lovely, lovely day today - picnic at the swings where DS1 and DS2 spent many an afternoon from babies to little boys, seeing old friends, looking at our old house, remembering happy days. I want to move back Need to win the lottery first. I soooo loved living there - it was idyllic. I can dream. I had a good conversation with DH though and we might move out of Shrewsbury in a few years time to somewhere smaller. I'm a country girl at heart. Even Shrewsbury is too big and scary for me.

Morning all

Getdown how was your night?

Becky did you sleep after your exciting day?

I was so tired last night that I played really badly last night and got lots of the music that I had worked very hard at very wrong. My friend (who's the sound eingineer) who took me home says it sounded fine and I'm too hard on myself but I know the mistakes I made. I know I have to cut myself some slack for not having slept but it knocked my confidence. I could have cried and nearly did.

Was in bed by 11 but dh woke me at 12.30 because I was making noises and keeping him awake so I moved to the spare room and didn't move for the next six hours. ds started chatting sometime in the night and I kept thinking I'm going to calm him down and tuck him in honest .

Well don't feel too bad this morning, depressed but not tired, hey one out of two ain't bad...