Insomnia friends - help I feel terrible

[GetDownYouWillFall]

Have been generally sleeping well, but last night was awful and it has completely thrown me

I've had a very busy weekend, and was aware when I got into bed that my head was still kind of "whizzing". I also have a job interview next thurs and don't feel I have prepeared nearly enough and won't have much time during the week. So that was playing on my mind.

Today we are going to my parents for my dad's 70th birthday so I will be under pressure to "perform" (they all know I was hospitalised in a psychiatric unit) so they will all be watcing me for "cracks". I hate it.

So, I go to bed at 10pm. Still wide awake at 1pm. This is when I start sobbing. Violently.

DH was great he rubbed my shoulders sat up with me, passed me tissues etc. but the sense of panic at not being able to sleep for absolutely terrifying. Everything just felt so hard. How am I going to get through this family gathering? When am I going to prepare for the interview? I am going to look like a complete idiot...

In the end at 1:30am I took a zopiclone. Felt like failure. And now I am suffering because I took it far too late (should never take one after 11pm because of hang over effects) so now I feel terribly spaced out and groggy. Have to drive down to Surrey and I haven't sorted anything out (food for DD, spare clothes etc. etc.)

I don't know why I'm on here really other than just to splurge. Want to cry but mustn't or my eyes will be all puffy and blotchy.

Sorry about your job. I'm so wound up I forgot to say that

Re. songs, a few weeks ago it was Lenka 'The Show' but last night I wanted to throttle Julie Andrews and all because the DSs are really into the Sound of Music at the moment!

Becky I know, I know. You will feel awful today. You need to accept that you will feel awful. Concentrate on the sensations in your body, one by one, and then just accept them one by one. You may have a headache, accept that. You may feel sick, accept that. You may feel dizzy, accept that. You may have a horrible bubbly rumbly tummy and toilet troubles, accept that. But also accept that you will not feel like this for ever. In fact, you probably won?t feel like this tomorrow. Tell yourself this is just giving you more ammunition in the fight to beat it. Also each time this happens, proves to yourself once again that you can get through the day on very little sleep. So what if you cried in front of your friends? If they are real friends they won?t think any less of you.

It is very hard, but once you start accepting those feelings, they start to settle down. Practise your deep breathing. And keep going. You body enabled you to get 2hrs sleep ? which is all it actually needs to survive (I learnt that yesterday from Paul McKenna). You unconscious forces you to get those 2 hours sleep. So you will be ok today. You will not die. You will be fine. 2 hrs is not ideal, but it?s not a disaster.

I can?t believe your GP won?t see you today and didn?t consider it ?urgent?!! I presume it was the receptionist who turned you away, not the GP? They are a particular breed of unsympathetic hard-nut battleaxes IME. They clearly have no understanding of what you?re going through and how much you?re suffering. Just because it?s mental health doesn?t mean the suffering is not real!! I normally refuse to tell the receptionist what it is about so they cannot ?judge? whether I am urgent or not. I suppose on my side I have my hospital admission so they see that on my notes and think ?mental patient, give her an appointment? ! But seriously, a week next Thursday?? That is not soon enough. No way. Ring back. Say it?s urgent . I would seriously not be happy with a week next Thursday that is rubbish.

Your DSs sound like they have already really tested you today My DD certainly seems to ?sense? when I am really sleep deprived and manages to run rings round me, usually ending up with me being a shaking, sobbing mess on the floor.

I am really thinking of you. Wish there was something I could do other than just sympathise. I do know exactly how you feel and it is really very bad, but it won?t last forever. I promise it won?t.

Sorry you had a bad night becky .
Agree you should ring back and tell them you need to see someone sooner.
x

It's funny how I am getting two hours per night. I read that too. I just can't stop crying at any tiny little thing. I'm too scared to ring the GP surgery back. She was really quite adamant and it isn't urgent really as I will probably feel better after a couple of good nights. I've been putting off and putting off going back to the GP and not sure what it will achieve anyway. DH doesn't even think I need ADs anyway. He says I always do this after a bad night, and it's true. After good nights I'm just 'normal' and fine.

The dermatologist appointment went well and there were loads of old ladies in the waiting room who all cooed over DS3. He is very cute when he wants to be.

I'm scared about tonight now though, stupid, stupid me I know (all the wrong things). What if I only get 2 hours again? I don't want to take any medication either (last night didn't work anyway). Perhaps I'll just have a big glass of red wine with my dinner. That normally sends me to sleep.

If you dont get a sooner appointment maybe use that as your cut off point.
So you've got two weeks to reassess. MOnitor your sleep and mood during that time and then if you dont feel any better discuss the option of medication ?
Hope today gets easier x

hi everyone,

sorry to hear that some of you haven't been having the best sleeps recently. i've been lurking and catching up when i can but we've been on holiday for ten days and now back at work which is manic as always.

i think kizzie has the right idea, use the GP appt as a cut off point. i did this before i went on AD's - i had an appt in a weeks time and i told myself if i wasn't improved then enough was enough. by this point i had around six months of insomnia, anxiety and low mood under my belt.

bizzarely when i went on the AD's i actually got a whole lot worse. it was seriously melt down time and my mum had to come and stay with me. i couldn't be on my own, i couldn't breathe, i was scared to talk, scared to listen to anyone as i couldn't understand what they were saying to me. i was basically having a constant panic attack and it was caused by feeling as if i'd somehow utterly failed as a mother because i had to resort to taking AD's.

i'm now very happily taking them every day and i look back and think, why did i put myself through those six months of hell when i could have felt better by taking ad's so much sooner.

of course life isn't all plain sailing now and i did have two days of anxiety and crying while on holiday. it was a bit of a shock as i have felt absolutely fine for weeks now. but somehow miraculously it didn't affect my sleep so i was able to move on quite quickly.

the tablets i'm on are dosulepin and i take the minimum dose which is 75mg at night. they are especially for anxiety and insomnia.

i hope that helps and even though i'm not on here as much as i used to be i'm still thinking of you all. insomnia is horrible, absolutely horrible so you have all my sympathies.

xx

countrylover - did you have any side effects with dosulepin. Thats one of the possibilities for me to switch to if i continue to struggle.

(sorry for hijack Get down and becky) x

I'm still in two minds... I want to be better and to not have to think about sleep and feel like I do. But are ADs a magic solution? Will it really be so much better? I relate to your 'failure as a mother' feelings. I was going through that in my head all last night - DH being against ADs doesn't help either as he thinks I've made so much progress since January. I think so too but I cannot cope with the bad days and low mood on those days, the anxiety about sleep, the anxiety about everyone being ill (everyone is very healthy at the moment). I don't know what to do really.

Kizzie you're part of this too! We all want to feel better

I've been re-reading some of the Paul McKenna book. He really does talk a lot of sense. All this negative thinking and 'I can't sleep, I'll never be able to sleep properly again' etc is just creating the situation. I've been doing some of the mental exercises in the bath and I felt the anxiety just go away while I was doing them. Everything I think is negative. I've been thinking all day 'I am so tired what if I can't sleep tonight, then what will I be like tomorrow?' Horrible thoughts. I should be thinking 'I will sleep tonight because I am so tired and it'll be lovely long blissful deep sleep and I'll wake up tomorrow feeling great'. Let's hope it works

I can't type much now becky as I'm feeling really anxious.

I'm sure your attitude is right.

We need to get ourselves out of this negative spiral.

Holding your hand tonight x

Holding yours too. We will sleep well tonight, we will!!!! Even if we do only get two hours that's ok. I've had two nights of two hours each now in a row and that's as bad as I've had since this all began in Janaury and I feel ok. I don't feel brilliant but I feel ok.

just to briefly reply to kizzies question about dosulepin - the only side effect i had was they made me sleepy - yay! seriously though, i'd take them at about 9pm and by 10pm felt really chilled and sleepy. this effect does wear off once you get used to them but by this point they will have kicked in with regards to reducing anxiety so you don't need the sleepy effect anyway. i hope that makes sense...oh and they gave me slightly blurred vision and a dry mouth for about a week but that wore off quickly.

also becky - in my case at least they did literally get rid of the anxiety around sleep. it's difficult to explain how they did it but basically i was able to be a lot more rational about things and deal with issues in a calmer way. therefore i slept better and the more nights sleep i got under my belt the more confident i got. then i would have nights where i even mananged to get to sleep in situations where normally it would mean zero sleep ie DS's being ill, DH being out late in the evening, first day back at work the next day etc etc. this in turn gave me even more confidence in my ability to sleep. the ad's just stopped that downward spiral of thoughts about sleep, the obsessive, intrusive thoughts that i was fighting every single day.

i'm really not trying to push the ad's idea to anyone though. they just worked for me in this case.

sending you massive hugs and sleepy sleepy thoughts.

will check in tomorrow to see how you're all doing.

Hello. I hope you slept ok GetDown. Did you use the CD? I fell asleep at 9pm watching Lost and then took myself off to bed. As soon as I got into bed I could feel my stupid brain fighting the urge to go back to sleep. I was on the point of getting the ipod out but the exhausted body won in the end and I slept, fitfully, until 6.30am. I always wake up the first good night after a run of bad nights feeling so low and anxious though as if I feel guilty for getting in a state or something.

Countrylover that is exactly my problem. I get a run of good nights and then something such as illness, DH working late throws me and I have to start all over again and I'm going around and around in this cycle of obsession about sleep. I get better, crisis, I feel awful, slowly I crawl back up again, crisis, I feel awful etc. And it is so stressful I'm really not sure how much longer I can keep doing this for. I have my appointment a week Thursday. I'm just worried the GP will try to make me take the sort of AD that has insomnia as a side effect as before. I wish I could bring all you guys with me for moral support . I think I have to admit that I am not coping very well anymore. Going back to work has helped but it hasn't magically made the problem go away. I used to sleep so well and stress didn't bother my sleep at all. What's wrong with me?

Well done becky I am so pleased to hear you slept in the end. It is like a war between body and mind isn?t it? I can feel my body literally begging for sleep but my mind is just in panic-mode refusing to let me rest.

I was in a bit of a state last night, hence going a bit quiet on you. I didn?t want my panic to rub off on you!!

I finished the Paul Mckenna book last night and have started to use the exercises. I must say I am really pleased with the book. Thank you so much for the recommendation. I was a bit worried it would be more of the ?same old stuff?, but actually there are lots of new ideas in there that I?ve never tried before. Last night I tried the ?thought streaming? exercise and combined it with the slow, monotonous internal voice. So I was saying to myself ?Now I can hear a car outside, now I can feel the softness of the sheets, now I can hear my heart beating slowly, now I can hear DH downstairs, now I can hear my slow gentle breathing etc. etc. etc. YAWN? It actually worked!! I was awake till midnight but surprisingly felt really calm and comfortable instead of my usual panicky writhing around. Then I must have slept because the next thing I knew it was 5am, then I dozed a bit and got up at 6:45!! So I consider that a success!

And hooray I feel refreshed today for the first time in about 2 weeks. Feels so nice to be calm and clear headed for once. Ok, it still wasn?t a normal night?s sleep but it was just soooo much better than before. And I actually feel calm today and the awful stomach churning has stopped! (I can ease off my Rennie habit today )

My DH has booked an appointment at the London Sleep Clinic (gulp) ? so now of course I?m worrying that I?ll be wasting their time and wasting our money! But I do feel it would be useful anyway because this insomnia thing keeps happening and it takes so long to get over each ?episode? that it can?t be normal. Also, I need some strategies to help me if I do ever get pregnant and suffer insomnia (when I cannot reach for the zopiclone!!)

So glad you had a better night. You are on the way up now.

I still think you should talk to the GP about mirtazapine though.

Chat later xx

Getdown I am so so so so pleased that you've slept. And definitely go to that sleep clinic. I understand that you are paying for the privilige so you are buying their time not wasting it. It can only help.

Becky you too, you slept!!! fitfully ok, but I've done that for a long time now and it is enough to survive on even if you get tired a lot.

I surprised myself by sleeping from 12.30 until 6.30. Not been doing too good mentally with lots and lots of flashbacks yesterday and a lot of pressure in my head so I had not expected it. Still tired though!

Hi willsurvive thanks so much for your encouragement! You?re right I am buying their time so it is different entirely from using NHS services, which are so often stretched, rushed and inadequate. I?m not knocking the NHS as they do a fab job with the resources they have, but it will be interesting to see how the private clinic compares.

I started to write my history last night so that they could read it before my appointment and I wouldn?t waste time telling them everything that happened. Before I knew it, it was 6 A4 typed pages !!!!

I had a lot to say!! It actually felt quite cathartic writing the whole sorry story down of my PND, insomnia and resultant hospitalization, and all the awful things that happened in between. I think that might be partly why I slept better last night ? I had written it all down, so it was kind of ?out of my head??

It?s great that you slept well too! I think the cooler night helped all of us too. Sorry you are having flashbacks though that must be awful
xxx

GetDown that is fantastic!!!!!!! I am so pleased for you. I am the same as you - thinking that the fact it takes so long to get over each episode isn't normal. The anxiety isn't normal.

Chances are you won't suffer with insomnia when you are pregnant. I couldn't keep my eyes open for anything when I was pregnant.

Do you really think so becky?

The thought of insomnia during pregnancy really terrifies me.

How are you feeling now becky, has the anxiety gone completely?

I put a message on earlier but it seems to have disappeared.

Anyway - it said that i was soo pleased that you both got some rest!!

And thanks countrylover for the info xx

GetDown do you remember how you slept when you were pregnant with DD? I slept so well each time I've been pregnant - I can remember having to go to bed at 9pm in the early months and even in the later months, despite having back pains and waking frequently to go to the loo, I slept well.

I'm not sure how I am feeling really. Troubled I guess is the answer. I think I need to apply the Paul McKenna tips more consistently than I do and that is perhaps where I am going wrong. I still don't know whether I need to take antidepressants. My mum has been here today and she thinks I'll just give up after 3 days because of the side-effects like I did with prozac / fluoxitine. She is skeptical and she also said I'd basically lied to everyone saying I was much better if suddenly I'm considering going back to the GP. Sigh. Mothers, eh? She doesn't understand why I am still, five months on, obsessing over sleep. I don't get it either. She says she doesn't understand why I get thrown by one bad night when 'normal' people just get on with it. Nope, I don't get that either. And I keep thinking if I really only do have anxiety over sleep then surely antidepressants aren't the answer? According to the internet this problem is really, really common. It's all in my mind though. It's not a physical illness. I need to keep working on turning my thoughts around. When I sleep well, I sleep sooooo well and I am sure that is thanks to Mr McKenna. But then I think 'yeah I am well' and just forget all I've learnt. I'm not feeling very positive right now and I know this is wrong. Perhaps we ought to start a new thread 'Insomnia friends - we will sleep better!' or something to keep us going and getting better.

But I think you've done so well the last two nights. Confidence breeds confidence. I'm a day behind you at the mo.

I agree the sleep clinic is definitely worth it. I really hope it helps. When is your appointment?

We haven't heard from Arcadia for ages. Do you think that means she's sleeping really well now? I hope so. Gives me hope

Hi, I'm still lurking around! Sorry to hear you've both had 'relapses' but hopefully you're both getting better again now. I haven't really known what to say as I'm not as bad, but I'm not so recovered as to be able to say that I've got the answers! Basically my sleep hasn't changed for the past couple of months: I get to sleep easily just after 11 but tend to wake around 3 or 4ish then can take a while to get back to sleep, then sleep very lightly til the morning unless it's my turn to have a weekend lie in and I can sleep really deeply then (but only happens once a week!). DD waking early because of these light mornings (we do have black out blinds but not fully) - hard as I have NEVER been a morning person. This probably sounds relatively good but I feel really tired at the moment and DD whiney today and I'm getting a bit tearful now.
I don't get the intense anxiety that you two describe; it more just feels like my body has forgotten how to sleep through the night because of having the baby (I managed to sleep through last time we stayed with DP's parents and they did nights after the first one, bliss!). I just get a bit frustrated. I've also just got the Paul McKenna book and have downloaded the CD but don't know when I'll be able to listen to it as I feed DD just before going to bed at night.
I'm still taking Nytol and that's obviously a problem as I can't take it forever but I don't think it'll do me much harm and preferable to other drugs.
Have been taking St John's Wort for a couple of weeks but haven't noticed that much difference. Tryptophan didn't seem to do much either.
Progressive relaxation has been the most useful thing, especially getting off to sleep initially, starting in my left toe. I have never made it as far up as my head!
The thing that has helped most is having some enjoyable days after 'bad' nights and realising that it's not a huge problem if I have a bad night.
I have no idea whether ADs are the right thing for you or not Becky, but you do seem to be trapped in a cycle and you somehow need to break that. I don't think trying to force yourself to think positively is always the right answer if you're really not believing it in your heart. I sometimes find 'worst case scenario' thinking helps me more - I face up to the worst that could happen then realise that life would go on. Also trying to 'get back' to how you used to be doesn't work as you always have to move forward and things are always changing but that works positively as well as negatively. I once went through a really bad period of panic attacks and kept thinking how I used to be and wanting to get back to that relatively calm state; but once I'd got through them properly I was glad because I'd become a stronger person and I have never had them since. It took time though.

Hi Arcadia!!!! Good to hear from you. You speak a lot of sense about not looking back and looking forward. I am always thinking 'What if I end up like I was in January?' I am also always catastrophizing 'What if I can't sleep and the sleeping pills don't work?' I can't quite come to terms with that one as it has happened twice now (although seeing that life has moved on from those times is useful, I am still here, I'm not in hospital or jumping off a cliff).

It's so stupid because I can fall asleep in front of the TV (much to DH's annoyance as he's just expressed to the world on facebook!) and go to bed and sleep all night (thanks to Paul McKenna I think) yet other nights I can't sleep at all, or only get 2 hours, lying there wide awake just thinking and thinking.

Do you have an ipod? Can you put the CD on the ipod and listen to it as you lie down to sleep (that's what I do). I'm going to listen to it more nights now and not just when I can't sleep. I've only been using it when I can't sleep and I think that's why it doesn't work when I'm in a panic. I think if I use it every night for a week it'll be more effective. I know it off by heart now. Do not use this if you are driving or operating machinary....remember as a child when you would sit on a swing....actually I can't remember much else!

Hi arcadia glad to hear you are doing well at the moment. You are absolutely right that a bad night doesn't necessarily mean it will be a disaster. I just can't help the dread / panic though, it just seems to come like a wave that I can't stop!

becky your mum sounds a bit mean saying you have "lied" to them about being better yeah, right because recovery is always a smooth trouble free process? I don't think so.

What you need to remember is that ADs are not just used to treat depression. They are also used to treat anxiety, and there is no question and you (and I!) have that. So don't agonise too much over whether you take them. It doesn't have to be forever and it is not a failure to do so. If they help you, why not? It seems your DH and your mum have a bit of a stigma about ADs? Are they worried that will somehow label you as mentally ill? It's crazy because they obviously want the best for you, but at the same time I think they are being a bit of a stumbling block for you too. It think you know in your heart this can't go on the way it has been.

You are so right about the positive thinking. We definitely should start a new thread called "Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will"

I'm going to try it on my ipod tonight. As I say I can get off to sleep OK but I don't feel that I sleep deeply through the night after the first few hours. Mind you, I'm starting to try and remember a time that I've ever woken feeling 'refreshed'! I always feel terrible in the morning however much or little sleep I have! Maybe the Paul McKenna book and CD will turn that around, I'll keep you posted!