Insomnia friends - help I feel terrible

[GetDownYouWillFall]

Have been generally sleeping well, but last night was awful and it has completely thrown me

I've had a very busy weekend, and was aware when I got into bed that my head was still kind of "whizzing". I also have a job interview next thurs and don't feel I have prepeared nearly enough and won't have much time during the week. So that was playing on my mind.

Today we are going to my parents for my dad's 70th birthday so I will be under pressure to "perform" (they all know I was hospitalised in a psychiatric unit) so they will all be watcing me for "cracks". I hate it.

So, I go to bed at 10pm. Still wide awake at 1pm. This is when I start sobbing. Violently.

DH was great he rubbed my shoulders sat up with me, passed me tissues etc. but the sense of panic at not being able to sleep for absolutely terrifying. Everything just felt so hard. How am I going to get through this family gathering? When am I going to prepare for the interview? I am going to look like a complete idiot...

In the end at 1:30am I took a zopiclone. Felt like failure. And now I am suffering because I took it far too late (should never take one after 11pm because of hang over effects) so now I feel terribly spaced out and groggy. Have to drive down to Surrey and I haven't sorted anything out (food for DD, spare clothes etc. etc.)

I don't know why I'm on here really other than just to splurge. Want to cry but mustn't or my eyes will be all puffy and blotchy.

GetDown poor, poor you. Panic attacks are horrible - sorry you are feeling crap today too. My neck feels so heavy and I keep crying about what an idiot I am and feeling guilty for the DSs' sake.

I definitely think I convinced myself I was going to have a bad night and I did. I knew I was doing it all wrong too. I had the anxiety from about 6pm, and it went after I finished my tea hence why I fell asleep on the sofa. But it was back as soon as I climbed into bed. I hate myself sometimes for doing this to myself.

My DH was so fed up with me. At 4am when I woke him up and he'd only been in bed four hours (his alarm goes off at 5am) he was not in the mood to calm me down at all. I feel such a cow. I've emailed him this morning to apologise and had no reply. He's so busy at work at the moment and he's going away next weekend too - these things have been playing on my mind.

I hope Paul McKenna helps. I do feel he has helped me hugely (although as you can tell I'm not sleeping blissfully every single night for ever more - but about 1 in 8-10 is a bad night at the moment, fingers crossed). I know I did it all wrong last night. I need to keep picturing myself sleeping well. Working on the anxiety, etc. Anxiety is just the worst thing ever, isn't it? I hate it.

I just want to be normal again

Hey you two you are both doing so well - honest you are. Becky you know that you will sleep fine tonight as you are so tired. Getdown you still need to settle down after last week and you will be fine too. Keep at it, both of you x

Thanks willsurvive I don?t feel I am doing well at all. It?s like I can suppress this anxiety for so long and then finally, after all the calm thoughts, the deep breathing, the distracting myself, the PSTs, the ?coping?, the getting through the day, finally the lid comes off and the fear starts pouring out in a torrent. And once it starts it?s like trying to push all the water back into a dam after it?s burst

Part of the reason I didn?t post last night was for fear of setting becky off. I?m so sorry becky if I?ve made your anxiety worse

The good news for you is that it?s restricted to one night. So you just have to get through today and tonight you will be fine. For me, I just don?t know when this will end. I am getting these awful thoughts that I will end up in hospital again. Only this time it won?t be a lovely mother and baby unit is will be a horrible scary adult psychiatric unit [terrified].

I need to get a grip on these negative thoughts, but I keep thinking ?but what if they are true??

I have this horrible experience of getting into bed, closing my eyes and feeling like they are still open. Then if I start to drift off I get a massive jolt of adrenalin. This can happen 20, 30 or 40 times in a night.

They still haven?t called me about the job. I wish they?d just put me out of my misery and tell me one way or the other. I don?t think there?s any way I could cope with a new job right now.

Thanks for all being so kind to me. How are you willsurvive?

You know Getdown when I get like this I call on my lovely brother-friend who sits down with me and let the whole cr*p come out and patiently sorts out what's what, what's real, what's imagined, what's important, what's just panic. Then I have a cry and two hours later I see things clearly again. I wish I could do that for you. Because I see a loss of perspective that just looks so familiar to me . In one night you have have progressed from maybe I can never have another baby and I can't take a new job to maybe I have to go to a scary adult psychiatric unit. Why would you have to go there? Are you losing grip on reality? Don't think so.

One thing that struck me is that you see your body as fighting the sleeping pills. But you are your body - it's not a semi-autonomous thing that goes its own way. This is just you, all of you, having had some tough days that everyone would have found tough and they've triggered your old anxieties. That's all. It will pass.

I'm ok - just really sad and don't know why. Upset very easily. Need to talk, about abuse stuff and about what happened in counselling. Will sort it out with someone.

GetDown don't worry about me. You haven't set me off! I seem to have settled into a pattern of a week or so good sleep, bad night, a week or so, bad night, etc, etc.

WillSurvive talks a lot of sense. You are imaging your biggest fear coming true. This is catastrophising. I do this too. My catastrophising takes the form of 'I won't be able to cope with the DSs, I won't be able to work, I will beccome addicted to sleeping pills, I'll end up killing myself when they stop working and I can't sleep at all and then I won't see my DSs grow up'. That's how my thought processes go at 4am when I can't sleep. In the light of day that seems really dramatic to me. Killing myself??? Really??? Just because I can't sleep? Do you really think you could end up in a psychiatric hospital because you can't sleep? Ten days ago you were sleeping well and your mood was great. So you need to turn this around and go back to that place just as I need to keep trying to get to that place (back to how I was before Christmas).

I think the problem with the both of us is that we are so scared of the worst case scenario that we are somehow moving towards creating it and it is really frustrating. Why is that? I don't know. What is it about the human psych that does that? I've worked so hard to conquer this thing that started, rather innocently, on Christmas night when I couldn't get to sleep after a bad night with DS3 on Christmas Eve. I panicked and ended up taking a piraton (ha ha ha) to get me to sleep. A week later I had a perscription for zopiclone and fluoxitine (spelling not sure) in my hand. I had a real reality check at that point and thought 'what on earth am I doing?' But I can't seem completely to shake this anxiety about getting enough sleep. Every time I think it's gone and I'm thinking 'yeah', I have a bad night and all those thoughts and feelings come flooding back. It's like walking a tightrope over hell. It's so silly, it really is. Sleep is so lovely. I love sleeping. I used to say to DH 'sleep is ace!'

WillSurvive thanks for your help and I'm sorry you feel so sad at the moment. I feel so guilty because I have nothing at all to be causing my anxiety, nothing beyond the ordinary every day life stuff.

I just fell asleep, only for a few moments, while DS2 was watching Mr Tumble. All is not lost then

I've also got Paul McKenna's beat stress book. He does talk a lot of sense. He's talking about being addicted to busy-ness. That is so me (and DH).

By the way, on the subject of catastrophising. Earlier I said 'DH hasn't replied to my email so he must be really fed up of me'. Nope. He was in a meeting all morning. Sigh. He said he didn't mind me waking him up at 4am.

sorry yuo are feeling sad at the moment willsurvive. They do say, that counselling can kind of make you worse before it gets better IYSWIM? Forces you to talk about really hard stuff, but that is the only way to address it. In the longer run I'm sure it will be for the best.

That's lovely you have a friend that yuo can "splurge" to and who helps sort out your thinking. My best friend where I live is a very bouncy, "can-do", happy-go-lucky kind of person. So whilst she is great to be around when you are feeling fine and dandy, she's not so good in a crisis. She's very practical and if I say something like "oh, I'm having trouble sleeping at the moment" she will just say something like "oh dear, get an early night then tonight." And go on to change the subject ....

My other best friend is from where we used to live in Hove and she is absolutely lovely and really understands re. the whole anxiety etc. Unfortunately now we don't live close we have kind of drifted apart which I really regret. Would feel kind of weird ringing her up out of the blue now to moan on about my problems.

The only person who knows me inside out and the whole sorry story is DH, who is great, but I do worry about burdening him. He has a very high-powered managerial job in the engineering industry and has got enough worries on his plate as it is.

Thanks becky for the recommendation of the paul mck book. I did get a chance to have a quick look in my lunch break and it seems very accessbile and easy to read. I like it so far. The only thing I am a bit doubtful of is the getting up half an hour earlier business? For me, it's the getting off to sleep that I struggle with, so once I'm asleep I would really rather it stay that way, rather than setting my alarm for earlier than I need to! But I do understand the logic behind it.

There you go about your DH - he wasn't annoyed with you at all. That is just like me and the goodbye kiss last week. I read way too much into it (or lack of it).

It's v encouraging you fell alseep in front of Mr Tumble. I wish I could!! It's true, he is very boring

My DH just emailed me to say he phoned the London Sleep Clinic to discuss my "problem" - the initial consultation is £250... do you think this is too much??

I know you can't put a price on your sanity, but will I just feel terribly guilty about spending this amount of money on my problem???

both your husbands sound lovely .

I think the £250 sounds about what I would have expected for a consultation like that x

Wow that's a lot of money!!! But your sanity is worth it I think.

Like you I don't have any friends around here I can burden with my problems as they are all very bouncy cheerful types and would also just say 'get an early night' or 'why don't you take a nightol?' But DH does listen to me when he's not too busy (he is incredibly busy at the moment working every evening until midnight at least). I talk to my mum too as she is a hypnotherapist but I think she's reached her limit with me now as I find we just talk about the same old stuff and I end up in tears and she just says 'everyone has bad nights, you just have to plod on', which is what I am doing.

I get up at 6.30am because of that book! I find that I am falling asleep earlier in the evening (on the good nights) so it must work. The only thing I can't do is eat 4 hours before bedtime. I'd be going to bed at midnight if I kept to that rule. And I can't not have a cheeky glass of wine on the odd night either. Sigh. I can't completely give up life's little pleasures. And I also read in bed sometimes. Oh dear.

oh no, I feel awful now. £250 is too much isn't it? Esp as it will probably go over stuff I already know from my CBT..

Just feeling a bit desperate.

Hiya kizzie how are you doing today? How is your return to work going?x

Noooo. I don't think it is too much (I meant 'wow what a lot of money' as in what they are charging not what you are paying if that makes sense). I would pay that for my sanity, seriously.

BTW does your DH do what my DH does - just sleep as soon as he gets to bed and fall asleep as soon as he's calmed you down and thinks you're ok? My DH is very, very good at sleeping!

hiya becky no I wasn't getting at you!! It's me, feeling guilty. Anyway we haven't spent it yet.

Maybe I will get better, maybe it will be tonight? (I can hope!)

Oh yes, my DH sleeps like a log

I always try to go to bed first because I know that once he comes to bed he will be asleep within about 2 minutes and it really upsets me as I feel so lonely if that makes sense?

I can tell when he's asleep as his breathing changes and he makes a funny "clicking" noise in his throat

Needless to say I have a rather large supply of ear plugs

It's so unfair, I really envy people who can fall asleep instantly...

My DH literally is asleep mid-sentence if I'm still awake when he comes to bed (I nearly always go to bed before him). He'll be saying 'yes, and tomorrow I've got a meet....zzzz'. I hate him!!!!

I would suggest that tonight you use the hypnosis on your ipod and just give it a go. Go with a totally open mind. You might not fall asleep listening to it, don't worry if you don't and don't think 'oh my god it doesn't work I'm doomed'. I tend to fall asleep listening to it but then wake up when it's finished to take the ear plugs out (and sometimes can't get back to sleep like last night grrrr but usually I can). But the effect is supposed to be long lasting (ie you don't need to listen to it every night, it is teaching your subconcious to sleep naturally). If you listen to it tonight, whether you take sleeping pills or not, and for the next week every night, it should start to help you. I find after a bad night if I listen to it for 2 nights then I have a week of really lovely sleep It must work. I've had the best night's sleep in my life after purchasing this CD. It's just that it hasn't been a blanket magic 100% cure (yet). I still have a lot of faith in it. I haven't taken a sleeping pill or diazepam for 1 month now, which is good!!!!!

Hi - thanks for asking how i am.
not a very positive reply im afraid. Still struggling and the bad days are v bad. Going to start reducing from 75mg to 50mg tonight to see if that helps. (Ive seemed to do better on lower doses in the past. Who knows this time .
But the only other option was to increase but then it makes me very dizzy and I wouldnt be able to drive which would leave me feeling even more useless.
Im really really hoping that I see some consistent improvement soon but scared to hope too much because keep being disappointed.
Hope you get sleep tonight x

kizzie I am so sorry to hear you are still struggling. Please do not lose hope you will get there, I know you will.

It's so confusing when the medication works better at lower doses isn't it? I take mirtazapine and bizarrely the 15mg has a better effect on insomnia than 30mg.. it's not just in my head, it's a documented effect.

Hopefully the 50mg will work for you. With all these things it's a case of finding what works for you. I have come to realise that the psychiatrists do not "know it all". You are the one that actually knows your body best. Sometimes when they prescribe things I just think "you are paid a lot of money for knowing not very much about my problem"

Don't forget the basics like exercise and healthy eating. I know it sounds really obvious, but I am a great believer in giving your body a fighting chance to heal itself.

becky - DH's are infuriating aren't they?! My DH seems to be able to have a highly stressful day at work, come home drink endless cups of tea, eat just before bed, drink beer, watch a scary disturbing war film and then just fall asleep instantly

Still, look at it this way, wouldn't it be worse if we were married to an insomniac ?

I am going to try out the CD tonight. Really positive about it - thank you. I like the book, I'm over half way through it already. I like the style it is written it - it seems quite a kind book

becky I'm SURE you will have a better night tonight. Not long to go now...

Hi Kizzie, sorry you are still struggling. Fingers crossed things will get better soon xx I am sending GetDown lots and lots of positive sleep vibes and keeping some for me too

thanks becky

thank you both.

Sleeping dust being sent to you both xxx

Bad night Took 2 diazepam at midnight and still only slept 2 hours. DH has just gone to work. I told him I want to go to the GP and ask about anti-depressants. He thinks I am panicking after two bad nights in a row (4 hours in two nights????). What do you all think I should do? I need some advice. I can't go on like this. Last night I was really tired, I wasn't anxious at all (thanks to the diazepam) but I couldn't settle and I had The Lonely Goathurd going around and around my head all night (please don't laugh it was very annoying) and I kept thinking about today - dermatologist appointment with DS3, beavers for DS1, promise to take DS2 to a children's centre drop-in, work I have to get done today, bla, bla, bla. Please am I doing the right think? Will anti-depressants (that aren't like prozac that I tried before) help me sleep??? I don't want to just take zopiclone or anything short-term like that. Pants I was sleeping so well until now. Am I being over dramatic? I'm not depressed as such, just anxious and a worrier. But I've always been like that, it just hasn't stopped me sleeping before.

GetDown how are you today? I really, really, really hope you slept better than me

You can tell I need sleep - hurd, think? Oh crap and I have to do some work today.

Becky you are panicking - if you feel for whatever reason that you need anti-depressants talk to your doctor but if it is just on the basis of two bad nights maybe wait a bit.

I always get cbeebies tunes, like Bob the builber stuck in my head, it seems to be a protection mechanism when my brain is overflowing....

Willsurvive I have resisted medication for so long. I don't know if I can carry on like this though, with this constant anxiety that admittedly comes and goes (depending on how I sleep) but at the moment I feel just utterly awful and I know it is sleep deprivation - even with diazepam I barely slept which worries me. I don't know what to do. When I am this tired I can't see the point of anything and then I feel guilty for thinking like that when I love the DSs and DH so much.

Becky sweetheart, look let?s think about this. Don?t panic (ha ha, says the queen of panic!) You have a lot on today, it?s no wonder stuff was swimming round your head. Your night was exactly like mine on Saturday ? I barely slept at all despite taking medication. It?s awful and frustrating and terrifying. I took a diazepam AND a zopiclone and still managed to not sleep on Sunday night!! I really think that sometimes sleeping medication doesn?t do you any favours. For me it sometimes increases my anxiety as I start to think how bad I must be to need to take stuff to sleep, I start to panic that I will get addicted and they will lost their effectiveness, and thirdly, my body almost ?gears itself up? to fight against it, by increasing adrenalin, heart rate etc. and sometimes you can sleep worse than if you never took anything in the first place!

Ok, you may not be depressed. BUT this is seriously affecting your quality of life, is it not? You feel you cannot go on like this. Sleeping problems are also a symptom of depression. You do not have to have all the symptoms to ?have depression?. Also sleep deprivation and depression are very closely linked, so if you have the one for a period, it?s likely you will have a bit of the other too.

Please please please see the GP ? have you made an appointment yet? Do it now! And Please discuss mirtazapine.

Ok, I know I?m not cured, but it has helped me enormously. I am scared of coming off it now because I know for sure it helped me. Please don?t be fobbed off. Tell them exactly how long this has been going on and how it is affecting your quality of life. You must do something about this now. There is hope. You WILL get better.

I am still feeling quite anxious myself today, but I found out I didn?t get the job which strangely has come as a HUGE relief. My night was a very strange one. I listed to the Paul McKenna CD which was really good (shame it was only 20 minutes tho!) and then I seemed to drift in and out of sleep all night, being strangely conscious but also strangely asleep at the same time. Feel a bit knackered this morning but definitely able to function. I will do the CD again tonight.

Please try and stay calm today. Take the pressure off. Do DSs really NEED to go to beavers or children?s centre? Keep the dermatologist appt but ditch the other things. Go to the GP instead!!!

Am here to chat to x

P.s. sleep deprivation makes you get songs stuck in your head. I had that britney spears song "toxic" in my head for about 14 days when I was in hospital and it literally drove me round the bend. I can't listen to that song ever now it has such awful associations It is not like a normal song stuck in your head, it is like a siren going off which is deeply uncomfortable.

P.p.s. mirtazapine is not just prescribed for depression. It is also prescribed for anxiety AND insomnia. So don't feel you have to "tick all the depression boxes" before you can be prescribed it.

GetDown I feel so awful. I just cried in front of two friends after dropping DS1 and DS2 off. I'm normally the happy cheerful one. I've had an awful morning. DS1 wouldn't have semi-skimmed milk with his Shreddies but we've run out of full fat. DS2 fell over on the way to school. DS3 threw up down me just as we were leaving. I don't know how to get to the hospital for his appointment. I have work to do.

The GP wouldn't see me today as it isn't urgent. Good job I'm not about to slit my wrists really. I have an appointment for a week on Thursday. But like you said, I'm not depressed when I sleep well, only now and I'm sure the GP is just going to say like last time 'take a zopiclone if you have two bad nights in a row, otherwise, just rest as much as you can'. DH is really skeptical about this AD lark. He didn't want me to take diazepam last night (wish I hadn't as it didn't work at all except to calm me down).

It's funny but I sound just like you did two days ago! It's horrible feeling, isn't it? I am catastrophizing but I can't live like this. It's too hard. I'm not a strong person. Like you I get scared that the medication won't work as that means I have no backup at all. Now I feel really jittery and on edge - hardly conducive to sleep.

I listened to Paul M. last night too and he does send me to sleep but I think my adrenelin was just too much last night that I wake up and can't get back to sleep again.

I'd better do a bit of work before I have to go to the hospital. I'm not sure I'm safe to drive!!