This fear that social services will come and take your children...

[willsurvivethis]

...it worries me!

There seem to be so many women out there who are afraid to seek help for depression and other problems out of fear that they will lose their children.

I have just asked MNHQ if they would consider doing something with this. Because surely if so many of us fear to lose our children something is going wrong somewhere! Surely we should all be albe to seek help with confidence?

What are your thoughts on this? I struggle with PTSD and even told my doctor that I tended to keep emotional distance from my ds when he's ill without even considering the possibility of that having repercussions.

Leonie you are speculating - a depression diagnosis is simply not enough for that. Whatever you say, it isn't.

OK i just typed a really long post and bloody lost it. I just wanted to firstly say to nickname123 - i understand what you have been going through and are still. I am so sorry that this happened to you and you must miss your ds1 desperately. xx

When my ds1 was a week before his 1st birthday sw's took him. I had pnd and the sw involved and gal told court i would never recover and had personality issues. They twisted truths and told blatent lies. They actually coached the child psych (who was a personal friend of gal) prior to seeing me to say 'this woman lies, dont beleive a word she says'. I was terrified of the whole process and fought with all I had to keep ds, which apparantly proved i was mental? My psych's were not allowed to give evidence and the independent psych who thought the whole thing was barmy and shouldnt be in court was dismissed as the gal overheard him stating that he thought this. Anyway, the crux of it is ex-dp had him with him and eventually after 2 and half years gained legal residency. (2003). the sw had left case in the 2001/2002 as was promoted and the new sw was completely shocked at how the case had been bought about and felt it should never have got as far as it did and that me and ex were equally good and capable parents. It was a desperate time and I missed so much time with ds1 and milestones. We were extremely close and was still bfing him when he was taken (literally in the night, I wasnt even allowed to feed him or kiss him goodbye , in tears remembering). Anyway, I started my nursing course on the day after the final court date. Ds was 3 and half by this time and I was having regular contact and it was staying contact by now (after months of 2 hours in a family contact room which ds still remembers vagually). By the time ds1 was 4 he was staying more and more and ex asked if I would be happy for ds1 to come and live with me full time. Which I of course was overjoyed and ds been home and happy with me and my dp ever since. He'll be 10 soon and now has a little half brother of 2 years old. He is a brilliant brother to him and I am so lucky to have them.

I am so cross with the system which is shrouded in secrecy and it went very wrong. There was so much to the case and I have considered going back over it all but I still live in the same area and I just dont trust them now. I believed they were there to help us sadly the SW involved seemed to have a very different agenda. They received one of the highest awards for adoption numbers iirc.

I am a trained MH nurse and had to be assessed prior to the course by occ health and their dr and was deemed fit I'd recovered from pnd by this point. I was lucky enough not to have it again with ds2.

I am aware that there are stages that need to be fulfilled before child is removed but the sw involved was key in those stages and her opinion was heard above all others. She was infact like a god in this. She was wrong, even now from a professional persepective looking at it I can see she was wrong.

They sought and EPO (emergency protection order), for my ds1 who was on the at risk register of harm due to some the the paranoid thoughts I was having with PND which was that someone would take him and hurt him. (There had been some very upsetting new stories and I was so frightened that i couldnt protect ds). The EPO was sought as I was an inpatient on mother and baby unit with ds1 and he was a week off being 1 year old. I was instructed by my hv (haha, the one who told me to wean pre 4 months and that at 5 months he should be on 3 meals a day and that I shouldnt give breast feed in morning but water) to leave him to cry when settling for nap for 5 mins, go and resettle and then leave again. I was first time mum and just trying desperately to get it right. Was still writing down every single feed etc (obsessive). Anyway, there was a locum dr who newly qualified on ward. Ds1 was not settling so i went in my room and he was led on me drifting off to sleep and she marched in, flung open the curtains and shouted we do NOT have crying babies in this hospital. I was so shocked and ds1 promptly bawled his eyes out. I stood up and said I was just trying to settle him but if she though she could do a better a job be my guest. I plopped ds1 on the bed (there was a nurse right next to him) and left the room as I was so angry and felt like the worst mother and knew they were with him. I was wrong to do that I know. Anyway, the dr called sw and that night they took him all based on this and the locum saying that the hosp cant guarantee ds1 safety now. I ached for him and can remember the complete awfullness of it. He was only little and had never ever been away from me, never settled at night without a feed and always been with me and dp. He was taken to a complete stranger for a whole week. He must have found it so daunting and confusing. I wonder wether this has had an effect on him longer term. Anyway, tangent.

That is exactly how it happened he was removed. From that moment he didnt come home for years. But i count myself lucky, he is home at least.

my goodness, sorry that was a long one.

I have seen Nina on many sw threads I have been on recently. And whilst I appreciate her posting here, I find her attitude strange.
Not just hers, but when someone says, basically, "your view is not valid, it is based on a personal experience". I think. Yes, so is everyones. you hold a view on family life, society, work, career, etc etc, based on what YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED. Thus I don't get that argument.

NanaNina's point was that she has seen many cases, most people posting here only their own.

I am an immigration/asylum law specialist and originally from abroad. I have my personal experience with the Border and Immigration Agency and I have my professional one. The first based on one experience, the second based on best guess about a 1000 cases directly and more indirectly. My professional experience is what I use to help people through the system, not my altercation with that b in the passport office who said my son wasn't British

Yes starlight avril and leonie.

Our letter saying no further action included stuff which we didn't say, concerns about us and a plan of action etc etc etc.

Exactly as starlight says - the report should say "everything fine, they were reported unnecessarily, case closed" but of course they don't say that because they need to show they are earning their money. So they are going to make damn sure they find something to put in their report. I would do the same, I'm sure, It's human nature. But that is wrong.

And it was terribyl stressful, the worst experience of my life. And like anyone I have had some not very fun bits in my life.

Previously i was confident as a parent, knew that HCPs and people were there to help me, that it was my right to seek help and be helped and that generally professionals of all sorts were "on my side".

I am still confident as a parent, but very cagey when I talk to people about my children. I no longer make jokes that I used to in case they are misinterpreted or overheard - it has changed my social interactions. I used to be fairly trusting, now I am suspicious. Anyone could report me. And if they do - and I have been reported before - well the SW said it would be very bad news if she ever heard anything about us again.

This taking the kids stuff is not all it is about. The whole thing is awful, even without that at the nack of your mind all the time. They can force you to do stuff you don't want to do. They are judging your every move and everything you say. it is simply scary.

namechange for this one I am so sorry to hear what happened to you and your family

Imsonottelling - I know what you mean. I believed that the SS were there to help our family through the hard patch, but they took the family apart. Ex was told he had to choose between me and ds1 (thank go he choose ds1 as he would have been adopted). They said ex said things he didnt, I said things I didnt, my mum, sisters etc. I dont really understand why the SW did say stuff in reports that wasnt true, but it was believed because why on earth would she not be telling the truth. I had to fight and fight to prove i was capable and sane. Apparantly I was trying too hard! According to the sw it was a concern? I would gladly lay my life down for my kids, how on earth is is it possible to try too hard to have your baby home? One thing that is so amazing out of all this is that ds1 and I have maintained such a close relationship. I lie with him everynight to say good night and we have a chat and I sing a lullaby. Sounds daft but he loves it, and i know he'll say someday that he's too big for all that but i relish the time that we have. It has made me appreciate every aspect of ds2 too. I missed the toddler years 24/7 with ds1 (I even missed first step and word). Going through the 2's here with ds2 and its all new to me. I wish I could have been with ds1 for all this but I cant change the past and our family have to live with how things are now. I am naturally very angry with the injustice of what happened, but it wont change it. I just searched the sw involved and whilst she was 'promoted' she still works for same council, which i am living in . Maybe i'm a coward but the thought of raking this all up terrifies me and i dont think it would be fair to ds1 and so scared i'd lose both my wonderful boys.

LeonieDelt - Ds1 went for his first camp a while ago and I had to collect him as he didnt sleep at all first night and was sobbing for literally hours the second. I got call at 11pm saying he was very distressed. He came on the phone sobbing and wanting me. I got in the car straight away. He's been upset at the only 2 sleepovers he's had missing home too. He is only 9 (well near 10) so it could just be that he is still young but i wonder..

He has school trip in May planned, only 2 nights but what to do? Is a hard one. Paid deposit and want for him to go and enjoy. Dont want him to go and feel completely distressed.

Our report says that neither DH nor I could see any way that it was a problem for babies to be cared for by people who had been drinking heavily.

FFS.

What we said was we couldn't see any problem with a baby being cared for by someone who had had a lot to drink - when there was a sober person there as well who was the one doing the caring when/if the other person had had one too many.

? what are you supposed to do with this stuff?

It's so minor compared to what happened to you namechange but it's just stupid and wrong. And there is no recourse is there? With police you sign a statement to say it is accurate. With this they just write up whatever they think they heard and that is that.

Isonottelling, Those few words changed make the meaning so different. Imagine reports literally filled with lots of errors like this. Then imagine how it looks to the judge? Professional sw (very exp) giving evidence in report with GAL (who is a good friend) with reports littered with errors and inconsistencies. Then you have me with my report, and responses to theres. My responses are basically going through bit by bit of there report correcting them to actually what happened. Of course the judge is going to believe the sw and gal as they are the professionals and have 'no reason' to get it wrong. Whereas the mother has every reason to lie? Then you cant bring other parties in etc as secret to protect the child. Actually the 'protect the child' argument is very valid but also often used to as a sheild to protect the sw

I can imagine all too easily namechange.

And the parent bleating from the side "no that's not right, really, I didn;t mean it like that, I didn't say it quite like that" and you just look like a liar. Because professionals wouldn't get something as fundamental as that wrong, would they.

I feel for you so much namechange.

Leonie - I just read your posts and wish i could say i was shocked at what happened but am sadly not

Aww at your daughter

Starlight - the list you put of their concerns, i reckon the main thing was the arguing with professionals They do not like you to disagree with them. Think that was onbe of my mistakes.. Weirdly i now feel more protected from them now i have professional qualification myself that i hope i would be taken more seriously, but as you and other mums say too, i'll be avoiding any involvment with them. I dont really do toddler groups etc just because the local one is at a family centre and i just hate the feeling of being 'assessed'.

Imsonottelling. thanks. I found mumsnet years ago because of this actually. Felt lost and didnt know where to turn to so searched the net. I am ok, I know that there are mums and dads out there who have lost the whole their childs childhood so I am lucky in a way I only lost 2 and half years (though 2 and half years too much). I cant live feeling crap about it, I wont let it have that effect on our lifes. We are together now and that is what matters. In the end, what should have always been is. I even try and tell myself that life has a plan. If ds1 hadnt been removed and ex and i split up due to it and he lived with him.. Then I might not have done my nursing and met up with an old friend from years and years ago. We wouldnt have got together then and then we wouldnt have both ds1 with us and now ds2. So in the end despite the shit thats happened, we are together, happy and healthy.

namechange and on that positive note I'm going to hop off to bed.

Night all

Oblomov - I am not discounting people's personal experiences nor the distress that has been caused to them. I am simply trying to point as the OP says that it is not really fair to attempt to discredit the entire system based on one experience, hurtful as it was. Yes of course our experiences shape our view about all sorts of things in society as you say. However as far as child protection and care proceedings are concerned I am challenging some assertions made by poster on the basis of one single experience because the assumption is that this is what happens in every case. Given that I have the benefit of being involved in many many cases I just think I am in a better position to give a more balanced and accurate view.

A GP did not take my sister's health concerns seriously and misdiagnosed her lung cancer, from which she died at a relatively young age. Yes I was angry with the GP especially as she had made many visits complaining of symptoms that he refused to see as serious. We will never know whether she might have been saved with an earlier diagnosis. I do not however seek to discredit all GPs - I have to accept that that particular GP made an error of judgement.

Iwill survive - you started an interesting thread and I am rellieved to see that you seem to be one of the few rational posters and I'm glad that you are to some extent reassured. The thread is being dominated by people who have had bad experiences and as so often happens on these threads, they are managing to fuel each other up, and perpetuate the idea that all social workers are incompetent bullying individuals etc etc. I know from past experience that there is little that can be done to turn this kind of thread around in any way or get people to see things from a different angle, so I will bow out at this stage.

Oh and whoever raised the issue of social workers going off with stress and some sarcastic comments about whether this is mental health or not etc. I think that stress can be seen as anxiety/depression and social workers are human (despite what most of you think) and the work is very stressful. I don't think they would see a distinction between the anxiety/depression that they often suffer through trying to cope with huge caseloads etc and the mental health problems that are suffered by service users. I think people trying to make these distinctions are just having another pop at social workers.

The only good thing is that John Hemming (an MP for Yardley in Birmingham) who posts on MN regularly and believes (along with lots of posters) that the cp system is evil and social workers just like snatching children from decent parent has not found this thread. I think this is because it is posted under Mental Health.

Leonie after all you've said that's quite pot kettle of you to say that really

I think this thread has run its course...