Toxic family mess

[junefrog]

I’m feeling really lost with my family and don’t know what to do.

A while ago my BIL behaved horribly towards my best friend — to the point that it’s impossible for them to ever be in the same room again. I posted about it at the time, he was aggressive, homophobic and egregiously nasty.

This wasn’t just someone on the sidelines, it’s someone who’s been on holidays with us, spent Christmas with us, very close. I said I was upset about BIL’s behaviour and was basically told to “get over it.” Since then, it feels like I’ve been cast out for daring to speak up.

My mum insists she’s about “kindness” and “values,” but she’s never once called him out. Instead, everyone seems to have closed ranks around him. My sister (his wife) is annoyed with me, and my other sister has started ignoring me for no reason.

The final straw was when my sister went behind my back and messaged my ex (who was abusive) to arrange for my son to go to her child’s birthday party (on my weekend). She didn’t even message me first. I find that totally inappropriate and sly, given what she knows about the abuse.

On top of that, they all recently went for a family photoshoot and I wasn’t invited. My oldest sister and niece came back from where they live abroad and I tried to reach out, and she ignored me. It feels like I’ve been erased.

I’m dreading Christmas. I feel like I’ve got no family. The hurt of my sister messaging my ex instead of me is not something I can just “get over.” I desperately want a functional relationship with family, but not one where my views and feelings are constantly sidelined. I’ve genuinely done nothing wrong other than say BILs behaviour was really awful. I can't understand why me being upset is worse than the behaviour in the first place.

I don’t want to prevent my son having relationships with his cousins and grandparents, but I also don’t want him around this toxic mess or people who deliberately cut me out. In truth, I feel much more peace when I have no contact at all, but then they pop up vaguely here and there and reopen the hurt.

AIBU to feel completely excommunicated and like there’s no way back from this?

Is this typical behaviour for your family? Do they freeze you out to punish and control you?

I desperately want a functional relationship with family, but not one where my views and feelings are constantly sidelined

Do you think this is possible? It seems as though you're forced to toe the line or given the cold shoulder.

You can either carry on as you are or you can start to assert boundaries knowing that they may permanently ostracise you.

Do you have a link to your previous thread please? Some families close ranks no matter how bad the behaviour, but equally there could be a feeling that your the one who's misjudged the situation.

Yes definitely with my mum but this is the first time my sisters have both joined forces to ostracize me.

This is really common with dysfunctional family dynamics. Your sisters are simply doing your mum's job after a lifetime of training. Take a look at the assigned roles in dysfunctional families (golden child, scapegoat etc) and see where you fit in. Once you see it for what it is, it's easier not to take it personally.

They all sound horrible, is your sons Dad still on the scene? Families and be such hard work I feel for you OP 💜

Yes but he was incredibly abusive towards me, absent for many years, stalked me, put me through years of hell via family courts. And now my sister is by-paasing me to make arrangements with him. It feels really upsetting and deliberate

Ah yes, sorry you did say that, what a bitch :-( i hope your best friend is giving you lots of support? And your son xx

How do people get over it? Do you just go no contactm

I think you need to have it out with your mum asap x

I've tried to. I've explained to my mum how hurt I was by BIL behaviour but she told me to get over it. It's a long list of complete hypocrisy and downplaying my feelings or needs. When I got a promotion, she wouldn't let me talk about it, she went straight to talking about some exercise thing my sister was doing. My sister and I have close together birthdays and she always puts pressure on me to buy her something and when I do and receive nothing in return a few days letter she's like "well XXX doesn't really prioritise birthdays".

I’d cut the lot of them off and start anew. You CAN choose your family! I’d not want my child anywhere near people like this

Thanks all. It's hard isn't it but I feel so much more pain having them pop up now and again than just having no contact at all. I feel my mum only wants be around to keep up appearances of being a perfect family. My sister came back from abroad and didn't bother messaging me although I saw on social media she was spending time with my other sister and her three children. My sisters clearly don't want me in their life. I don't know what I gain from this relationship

I'm sorry you're having a tough time and I get what you mean. My husband and I have very similar families, his were just a touch more toxic and treated me like utter shit, well mostly his mother, so after we had our first baby he ended up cutting them off completely. We had always had them dip in and out over the years, and he said that's what she's done his whole life too, and it was so much less stressful and more peaceful when they weren't around, again mostly with his mum out of the picture. I feel bad that he doesn't see or speak to them anymore and blame myself, but I tried so hard with her and I just didn't want her around our baby making her life toxic as well. He said it's the best thing he's done and doesn't have to stress about their toxic presence anymore. My family isn't as bad but I do sometimes debate not bothering with them anymore and to be honest I don't bother with the ones that cause drama anymore.
If you have a better and more peaceful life without them included, perhaps cutting them out is what's best for you? Just don't bother messaging them or calling them, leave it to them now? As long as it doesn't bother you in the long run, and perhaps it's best not to have such a toxic family with weird values around your child anyway? Sort of breaking the cycle then? If this is the way you're going, not bothering with them anymore, then you could just have it out with them all now and say what you really want to. Who knows, maybe it will actually make them reflect on their own behaviour and change for the better, although generally people like that like the capacity to be self aware and change, like my MIL with her narcissistic tenancies.
All the best with whatever you choose

Prioritise your own happiness. I would definitely not bother to contact them or see them anymore. It all sounds very much like my dad’s story. He kept seeing his family until he was in his 50s when he had a huge breakdown. The counsellor said “why are you still seeing them? You don’t have to?” From that day he didn’t. He got a few nasty letters from his dad but that was it. Life was much calmer.

You cannot have a functional relationship with them unless you cede all of your values.

That’s the crux.

My sister had an abusive ex. I’d sooner bathe my vag in acid than ask him anything after what he put her through.

They are related but they are not family worth having.

This is what hurts the most. She saw the worst of everything he did. And now decides to erase me and go through him to circumvent my input in my own son's life - on my weekend too!!! It feels deliberate and pointed. I can't get over the fact she knows that for nearly a decade everything he did and yet I have to find out about this invite via my son's dad when my son is on a facetime with him. And I have to pretend I knew about it. I can't fathom why she thinks that's appropriate at all.

Honestly @junefrog your family sound awful. I suspect you’re the scapegoat. Always the trouble maker.

They will grind you down. Keep away from them.

Out of interest, if anyone has experience, how do you justify going no contact when my son loves his family and grandparents and I don't want to deprive him

At the moment it really hurts because you still hope for things to be different. When you accept that ship has sailed, they aren’t different, this will always happen, it’s actually easier to have them in your life.

Your ds and you can see them, but not emotionally rely on them. In time, he will see things he doesn’t like and ask you about it. You will explain that Granny and Grandad love him, but have some funny ideas that you don’t agree with. Granny and Grandad love him but they aren’t always totally reliable. G&G love him but aren’t very good at being fair/telling the truth/knowing what’s really important.

If you have strong boundaries, you can be around people you disapprove of. Your son will learn how to be compassionate towards people who are trapped in disfunctional family dynamics that you and he have avoided buying into.

They will eventually treat your son like they treat you, so if anything you need to go NC with them to protect him. I would explain to him in an age-appropriate way too, so he understands. Don’t say nothing to him. My mum did this with me and it caused a huge fallout when I eventually found everything out when I was early 20s. I felt my whole childhood had been a lie and it was horrible. Be honest but gentle with him and start building your own village though friends.

I can't fathom why she thinks that's appropriate at all.

It isn't. It's punishment.

How do you justify it? By taking a good long clear and cool look at what's really going on. Looking at what your entire family have done here. Don't look at their words, look at their actions. Write them down if you have to, then come back to it several hours later. What have they done that is straight, honest, decent, inclusive and fair? What have they done that is sly, deceitful, and planned to make you the outsider? Make a plus and minus column if you like, and consider the proportionality of the actions. one cup of tea and chat with your mum does not equal your sister going behind your back and making plans for YOUR son with your highly abuse ex, does it?

Sadly, like a hound that wants to be part of the pack but isn't, humans aren't much different. We all want to belong. The outsider wants to be an insider. I'm sorry, @junefrog You deserve a lot better.

I think you need to prepare yourself for the fact that your sisters and your mothers are frenemies, with less of the 'friend' part of that, and that they will go to and work with your ex more in future. Hope very much I'm wrong. Honestly, if circumstances allow I'd be applying for jobs some distance away at this point.

More than anything else, I'd be teaching my son how to look at people's motives and what really is decent and kind behaviour and what isn't. "how do you think that Tom felt when you did XXX?" "How did you feel when Dave did YYY?" " why do you think they did that?"

One of the bigger gifts you can give a child is a sense of security but also the tools to understand the dynamics between people.

You have my sympathy OP. I think I'm in the similar situation - desperately seeking my Mum's approval despite appalling behaviour towards me and being told my (perfectly valid) feelings are 'ridiculous'.

I completely relate to how happy and peaceful life can be without family, then something happens to bring them into contact with you and bang the push pull dynamic starts again.

Read about family scapegoats. Unfortunately it sounds like you might be one too.

It’s almost as though they think you are overreacting about the disagreement between your friend and that you are the unreasonable one. What actually happened, has it been downplayed between them to justify bil’s position and make you seem ott?

Thanks for the replies on my earlier post. I think what’s hitting me hard is that this has actually been a long pattern, not just about the current situation with my BIL/sister.

I grew up around my mum’s moods – always walking on eggshells. Everyone in the family was so attuned to her moods.

During the pandemic, when I briefly lived with them while selling my house, it all came back. I’d bought my son a tent for his birthday, nothing extravagant, just something fun. My mum decided it was “inappropriate” for a single mum to buy a tent (?!) and when I calmly said “well I’ve bought it now,” she threw the tent pegs down and told me to fuck off. In front of my child. That’s the kind of volatility I’ve always had to manage.

Then there’s the way she inserts herself with my abusive ex. When he made completely bogus claims about our son being seriously ill, she spent hours on the phone to him instead of backing me. It felt like another betrayal, especially after everything he put me through.

I’ve spent years in therapy working through the trauma of my son’s dad. My therapist said, recently “I was waiting for you to talk about your mum, because it was always clear she wasn’t supportive. But you had to get there yourself – you didn’t have the headspace to deal before cos you were dealing with the immediate trauma of his dad.” That’s really stuck with me. I feel like now I’ve navigated one storm, I can actually see the other one that’s been there all along.

That’s why this whole thing now – the way my sisters and parents are closing ranks, the sly way I’m cut out – feels like the final confirmation. I keep thinking “maybe if I explain it better, maybe if I’m calmer, maybe if I give them another chance…” But the truth is, I never get what I need from them, and maybe never will.

I don’t know if I’m ready for full no contact, but I feel peace when there’s distance. And then every vague message or event reopens the wound.

I guess I’m asking: how do you live with that realisation that your own family might never be the safe, supportive people you needed? And how do you
protect your child

Listen to your heart. You deserve to feel at peace. Family shouldn't make you feel bad.