Toxic family mess

[junefrog]

I’m feeling really lost with my family and don’t know what to do.

A while ago my BIL behaved horribly towards my best friend — to the point that it’s impossible for them to ever be in the same room again. I posted about it at the time, he was aggressive, homophobic and egregiously nasty.

This wasn’t just someone on the sidelines, it’s someone who’s been on holidays with us, spent Christmas with us, very close. I said I was upset about BIL’s behaviour and was basically told to “get over it.” Since then, it feels like I’ve been cast out for daring to speak up.

My mum insists she’s about “kindness” and “values,” but she’s never once called him out. Instead, everyone seems to have closed ranks around him. My sister (his wife) is annoyed with me, and my other sister has started ignoring me for no reason.

The final straw was when my sister went behind my back and messaged my ex (who was abusive) to arrange for my son to go to her child’s birthday party (on my weekend). She didn’t even message me first. I find that totally inappropriate and sly, given what she knows about the abuse.

On top of that, they all recently went for a family photoshoot and I wasn’t invited. My oldest sister and niece came back from where they live abroad and I tried to reach out, and she ignored me. It feels like I’ve been erased.

I’m dreading Christmas. I feel like I’ve got no family. The hurt of my sister messaging my ex instead of me is not something I can just “get over.” I desperately want a functional relationship with family, but not one where my views and feelings are constantly sidelined. I’ve genuinely done nothing wrong other than say BILs behaviour was really awful. I can't understand why me being upset is worse than the behaviour in the first place.

I don’t want to prevent my son having relationships with his cousins and grandparents, but I also don’t want him around this toxic mess or people who deliberately cut me out. In truth, I feel much more peace when I have no contact at all, but then they pop up vaguely here and there and reopen the hurt.

AIBU to feel completely excommunicated and like there’s no way back from this?

Hope you managed to get some sleep and are thinking clearer this morning, @junefrog. Opting out so you don't have to deal with the pain means leaving your son at their mercy, and his abusive dad's, so please make an emergency appointment to see your GP or talk to your therapist today if you're still feeling that low.

I see from your previous thread that your DS is seven, or perhaps eight by now. You think that you might be robbing him of a loving relationship with his extended family but trust me when I say he'll be fine. I was about the same age when my dad went NC with his toxic family, who treated him exactly as yours did (plus physical abuse when he was a child). Even though I loved going to see my grandmother and adored my cousins and aunts, I recognised even at that age there was an undercurrent of a bad feeling in the room. I could tell that my dad wasn't himself when we were there – he'd become very quiet and tense – and I also recognised that my grandmother was harsh and spiteful in how she spoke to him. We'd get in the car to come home and my dad's shoulders would literally sag with relief that another visit was over. So when he said we wouldn't be going down there any more, I minded a bit, but not as much as you'd expect. I just knew it was upsetting my dad and if not going meant he wasn't upset, I was fine with that.

So give your son some credit in accepting the new status quo of NC. He's got you, his stepdad, any extended family on his stepdad's side, his friends and presumably your best friend to love him. He will feel loved enough.

They are your family, you only get one family, stay in contact and try damage control.

Christ no.

Your mum told you to fuck off Op?

If that was a friend you probably would have done so & not seen them again.

Why not with your Mum?

Why do we expect so little from family?

Is it possible that the abuse and minimising from your mother all your life, set you up for your relationship with your abusive ex?

The best 2 pieces of advice I have ever received are
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them" and
"If they wanted to, they would"
You can't choose your relations but you can choose to help yourself. These people are toxic and are overshadowing your life and your happiness.

I can understand you not wanting to deprive your son of their "family" but in reality, are you? Or are you just setting him up for the same cycle of stealth abuse that you have suffered from.
Quietly back away and make a conscious decision to put yourself first.
They've shown you who they are. Believe them.

This is exactly what I was going to say! Since I went NC, my now adult DS has told me he always felt uncomfortable with my family and could tell I was unhappy. He also said he hated the way they behaved towards me.

Children miss very little.

I have a nice sister and a horrible one. I tried to keep the horrible one in my life for years, mainly because I got on with her husband and wanted to be part of their kids lives. It was our mum who stuck up for her, but when mum died 11 years ago the rest of us haven't had anything to do with her since (dad, sister and me). Life is a lot calmer and we tick along nicely.
It's a lot harder when it's a whole family you're faced with doing that with though. Maybe give yourself a few months, including over Christmas, and see how you feel. It might be that some family members contact you after a while. It obviously isn't going to sit well with you to keep up a pretence. Try to think that it won't be forever. But then, if your life is happier, it could be for as long as you like

My God, what an awful shower. They have no place in yours or your child's lives. Your mental health will improve immeasurably if you cut them out of your life. Block them on every platform.

. I can't understand why me being upset is worse than the behaviour in the first place. @junefrog

It's not that you're upset, it's that you dared to call it out and shine a light on how horrible bil is.
The truth is uncomfortable and they would rather pretend everything is great, then they don't have to do anything to change. They can all keep enabling each other in these toxic relationships.

It's typical behaviour in a dysfunctional enmeshed family. Honestly you're best out of it, you can see it for what it is and why would you want that for yourself and your DCs.

Sweetheart, I know that feeling.

There aren't any easy answers here. Only a hard road ahead - either you stay in touch, or you don't. There's pain either way.

One way is stifling and you know, deep in yourself, they are wrong and it's smothering and cruel.

The other, you breath fresh air but that air cuts like a knife of loneliness.

Even so the path of fresh air is better, lovely, in my experience. But there are no easy answers, as every single person here will acknowledge.

sends a hug

Protect your child and cherish his love. You did the right thing in standing up for your friend, lonely as it is. This fight was always coming, if you ever dared stand up to your family, because they wanted you in one role and one role only - the scapegoat sheep.

You actually have the chance now to build a better and saner life for yourself and your son, but it's hard. Take it hour by hour when it's bad, even half-hour by half-hour.

Also, it does get easier slowly in the long term and for some people it heals. Not for everyone, but it does get easier. Meaning years, I'm afraid; but you look back at some point and while the cost has been huge, it was worth paying because living as the scapegoat, knowing that you are worthless to your family and will always be the one that is left out and undermined even if you won the nobel prize, is absolutely not worth living.

Fresh air is better.

I rrally feel for you. I’ve been in a similar situation for the last 3 years. My elderly parents lived next door to me and my ex and our 3 children. Sister also lived in the same village. I cooked for parents 6 nights a week took them to the doctors and all sorts of other places. My ex and I separated. He was extremely abusive. I met someone else whilst we were still living in the family home. Ex went berserk and told my sister and father. They colluded and froze me out, father saying the most unkind things to me… for example how disappointed he and my mum were when I was born a girl and they already had my sister. That sort of thing. They both remain very supportive of my ex. Sister & father still socialise with my ex and I have no contact with her but I do have short conversations with my father on the phone. I have had 2 years of counselling because of it all and still have daily flashbacks of his abuse. He pleaded guilty at court of coercive & controlling behaviour amongst other things and they still carry on with him. It’s incredibly hurtful.

I suspect that you now know that removing yourself from your abusive ex freed you up mentally (eventually) to be a better, more attuned and more present mother to your DS. One who knows she has agency, who makes difficult but ultimately better decisions for the long term, one who considers what choices and responses she can make and one who has chosen to provide a calm and peaceful home, which is emotionally secure and balanced to ensure the optimal emotional environment for the development of her child.

You are now less preoccupied mentally with your ex minute by minute which means that you have more energy, time and headspace to support your DC.

This is exactly the same with your family. They are causing you to be undermined, betrayed, confused, hurt, angry etc - all of these emotions and preoccupations take away your ability to parent your DC to the best of your ability and he especially needs your composure and emotional calm and intelligence if he is lumbered with a hideous DF.

Take yourself out of punching distance - no flouncing or dramatic announcements - just step back and step up so you can see what’s going on . You can go NC in steps.

Drop the rope - they can’t play games with you if you don’t engage. Grey rock. Info diet.

Actively pivot your life and choose to surround your DS with people who respect and show kindness to his mother.

Of course there will be pain at no contact or very very very low contact.
But the reward is no drama, peace.

As time goes on it does become the norm.

Your family are abusers.
Your mother is an abuser.
You are the family scapegoat.
It is no surprise you ended up with an abusive man.
You tell your son the truth.
Adult relationships are hard.
Your family are not kind, good people, towards you.
You want to severely limit the time you are with them.

It's the only way. I'm so sorry.

You can also choose to have a method of management that is different for each family member. That has helped me. Divide and rule and it’s not so overwhelming. DSis 1 might be easier to drop the rope with if she’s in another country etc.

Your goal is to raise an emotionally secure and mentally healthy son - who has the odds stacked against him right now. If that becomes your sole goal then the answers become easy. He needs a strong mother - not one emotionally battered and subjugated - build that environment for you both.

What’s the birth order of the sibling group? my friend from work has a very awful dynamic in his family with him in your role. He was the third brother of three but an unplanned pregnancy and a fair bit younger. He has a job that they disapprove of, they are all farmers and he is an academic. He is no contact now.

You need to do what @Checkard has suggested. Don’t make an announcement it will just cause more drama.

Hello OP, we are really sorry to hear you are feeling this way.

We hope you don't mind, but when these threads are flagged up to us we usually add a link to our Mental Health resources. You can also go to the Samaritans website or email them on [email protected].

We see that you are getting some wonderful support already. Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as other MNers will tell you, it's really a good idea to seek RL help and support as well.

We also like to remind everyone that, although we're awed daily by the astonishing support our members give each other through life's trickier twists and turns, we'd always caution anyone never to give more of themselves to another poster, emotionally or financially, than they can afford to spare.

We are going to move this thread to the Mental Health section shortly.

Wishing you the very best,
MNHQ💐

My kids have no relationship with my family to speak of because of my LC. I take responsibility for that. But part of the reason I went LC was because my mother played favourites with my kids and I felt that I couldn't let that continue. It would taint their sibling relationship long term. The other reason was because I don't like who I become in my mother's presence (stressed, upset, anxious) and I don't want to be that person in front of my kids.

She came to stay with us for a few days a while ago. After she left my youngest said 'she complains a lot, doesn't she?' and I just thought yep, he's seen what she's like with the fresh eyes of someone who barely knows her.

As per some previous posts, I would consider moving some considerable physical distance away from your family and ex. to get the separation you need. Their collusion with your ex will only increase and that is their route into your son.

I agree with this. Even if you go LC or NC they will go over your head to your ex to access your DS.

The thing that I'm continually surprised by on these toxic family threads is how similar our experiences are - I read your post and it could have been written by me. The m.o is exactly the same - the power plays identical. So many of us suffering and it never ends and your stuck in your scapegoat position for ever. And it does pass on from generation to generation. I've never been ' allowed 'to see my nieces from an early age by my narcissist sister and they're all grown up now, but from what I observe from afar, the golden child has been selected and is full of pomp and bluster and sits happily on her throne, whilst her youngest daughter, my mirror self, is wracked with self doubt and awful m/h due to her treatment as the irrelevant, unimportant, too sensitive one. When posters suggest setting boundaries it's well meaning but impossible with these types of family. You're simply not allowed any. Either capitulate or be thrown out as the trouble maker.

Thats awful 😥 sorry you have been dealt such a shit hand, they dont deserve you, mug them off 😘

It’s very helpful to read up about toxic families - then you can see all the patterns and choose how to engage or not. It feels very powerful to have this insight. It’s also important to focus on self compassion because a dysfunctional, toxic environment means that you are enmeshed and it’s mentally and physically painful to extract yourself safely from the enmeshment. I imagine it as flesh wounds inflicted that have merged with others in the family so when one moves it pulls and hurts. A healthy family grows their DCs to be independent and respected for their choices.

The “relentless hope” of a good parent keeps you stuck within punching distance and you will get hurt again - it’s not a matter of “if” it’s “when” - this also blocks your capacity to have better relationships with emotionally healthy people including your own children, spouse, friends. Toxic people/families steal your finite energy, time and headspace.

Op you have had so much support and great advice on here, this post especially. I hope you are okay

Yes, recognise this too. The golden child must not be challenged under any circumstances, they walk on water and any bad behaviour is minimised away. Yet if you mistep, well it'll never be forgotten about and feeds back into the narrative of what a horrible person you are. You will never win as you're in a game to which you don't know the rules. or you'll suss it out eventually, but by then your own life has disappeared and you'll h ace lost decades. There will always be an excuse. And the queen bee ( narcissist mother usually) will glow with pride, that all her triangulation has worked like a charm as siblings turn on each other and are locked in emotional combat. You don't deserve this OP, none of us do. The pain never ever goes away fully, but once you see them for what they are it gets easier to sit with. It's not your fault. They're damaged awful creatures.

“They’re awfully damaged creatures”

I agree and find it really helpful to visualise them as a scorpion or hyena - then you are always going to keep yourself self before they lash out.

Definitely moving away is very helpful.

I have several friends who chose to move just far enough away, to another city, which meant they simply very rarely visited, and only every very briefly.
Never regretted the decision.
In every family there was a golden child.