Suicide - why do people it it?

[BoundaryGirl3939]

I got word yesterday that an incredibly competent, popular and capable women in her early 50s committed suicide. I'm shocked. She had it all. A devoted husband and two beautiful grown up children.

Her poor mental was blamed on her menopause but apparently her mental health deteriorated a good few years before the change.

I got to know her about 11 years ago(lived with her very briefly) but hadn't seen or heard from her since bar her profile on social media.

I just don't know what can make someone throw it all away. She literally had it all, and she was still young.

If I was to compare myself to her, I would not measure up to the level of drive and success she had. In a material sense, I've got very little. How could she throw it all away? Was it a moment of delusion or did she really know what she was doing?

Mhm..mhm.. the youth of today.. except this poor woman was in her 50's.

Never mind the fact that it has fuck all to do with resilience.

I think the problem is what people perceive as having it all ..

I can remember getting my mortgage, nice car , good job but going home and self harming so regularly I knew the most of the A&E staff .. People see the outside not what’s going on inside .

crisis services are crap - I have been advised have a cup of tea or go for a walk before / not particularly helpful for those in crisis .

psychiatric beds are so limited they are only for the the most severe cases get a bed .

I don't think anyone believes it's the people who work in MH that are rubbish but more the systems. Too many people in pain are shunted into short term CBT when they need long term expert therapy. Because there aren't sufficient resources patients don't receive the help they need and become suicidal without it.

I wonder if the people triaging the depressed and anxious in primary care should be psychologists rather than GPs as they have far more training.

Children's services are even worse with even suicidal children waiting literally years.

It's just words, and the least important thing when someone has died.

It's really not, and for some the wrong words can make it harder.

I realise this is not the point of the thread and may not be the case for the subject of OPs original post...

Having been diagnosed / treated for perimenopause now for a year and with the benefit of hindsight having been in perimenopause for some years (which means it will have started in my mid-30s and why I was fobbed off for so long) I have been really surprised at how debilitating and all- consuming the symptoms are. And also how backwards and outdated information, attitudes and NHS care is.

I thankfully have not been suicidal but my mental health has been absolutely diabolical. Some times my anxiety is crippling, which in turn keeps me awake all night, I feel sick and don't want to eat. My career has tanked over the last few years and I recognise I simply haven't been the strong performer I previously was. Some days I am just so miserable and just want to stay in bed. I read so many threads on this topic of women suffering with their mental health and it being misdiagnosed, or trying to get HRT being hells own job.

Death by suicide is clearly a terrible tragedy and sometimes there genuinely is nothing that can help the person...but if it can be easily resolved by effective treatment for perimenopause then it's not only a tragedy but a total failure.

The OP says that the mental health issues pre date the menopause...but I wonder if menopause simply wasn't diagnosed and treated soon enough.

I am very certain my life will end by suicide. My MH is very poor and I don’t leave the house. It’s lonely and I offer nothing of any substance to anyone around me. I know it is selfish but I think we never know how other people’s lives are in reality and should not judge.

@OnlyOneAdda "The OP says that the mental health issues pre date the menopause...but I wonder if menopause simply wasn't diagnosed and treated soon enough."

FFS. I bet many on this thread were younger, even children, when first considering it.

I really hope some people learn something from this thread but I think it woukd be better if it wasn't here. Irony!

I don't know what your professional role is, but have you considered that you are not exposed to every type of person who acts on suicidal thoughts or dies by suicide? Are you perhaps more likely to come into contact with those who have more intractable problems?

I work in an area where I do encounter people who have actually died by suicide. Typically under 25s. Young people with full and bright futures going through acute distress who have taken actions that don't need a lot of planning but through their violence tend to be fatal. I also contemplated suicide and made suicidal plans when I was younger and now my life is fine and I have no mental health issues at all. Fortunately, I never was very impulsive but maybe if I had used alcohol or drugs at the wrong moment, or maybe if something very difficult had happened in my personal life to increase my distress, if I lacked protective factors, or maybe if I had been a young man instead of a young woman - my story could be different. Over. Would you encounter someone like me in your workplace?

When we tell people that suicide is inevitable, and might even be for the best, we risk contributing to the hopelessness and isolation that people with suicidal thoughts may feel, reducing the chances that they do seek help, reducing the chances that they survive. Suicide isn't a good option for the majority of people - I don't think that's a controversial statement. Suicidal thoughts can be temporary, can pass, and can be survived - that's not the same as saying they aren't serious or are a whim.

I think it's very important not to conflate the issue of suicide, which is typically (not always) related to irrational thoughts caused by an acute mental illness or distress, with assisted dying. Here I have been talking about the fact that suicide is preventable and should be prevented in a majority of cases and this really has nothing to do with assisted dying.

Interminable, untreatable suffering caused by physical or mental illness is the reality for some but not the majority. It's rarer than having suicidal thoughts - which aren't uncommon. Even acting upon suicidal thoughts is not uncommon. People can and do act upon suicidal thoughts, in the absence of intractable illness or suffering. In these cases, if they die that is a tragedy. Because if they survive, they are likely to recover.

There are different groups of people who act on suicidal thoughts for different reasons. The narrative that suicide is a good solution to intractable suffering, is a pro suicide narrative and I fear you are treading into that territory. I am not trying to undermine your experiences but please consider that they may not fully cover the full range of people who act upon suicidal thoughts.

Apologies if my post offended people, that was certainly not my intention whatsoever.

I completely understand depression is an illness, and in relation to adverse experiences and traumas, of course it's presentation would not be related to someone's emotional skill set.

However i was talking about the sort of cases OP mentioned where it appears that due to a seemingly minor mishap such as exam results, someone ends their life because it devastates them and they can't see past it, which seems increasingly the case with the younger generation.
And I do have some lesser experience of that.As a teenager (early 2000s) i self harmed and on one occasion that was because I didn't get tickets to a gig I wanted to go to, and I didn't have the emotional resiliance to cope with the disappointment in a reasonable and healthy way.

Which is why I wonder if there was more promotion and education around how to promote positive mental health early on, this could help prevent the development and progression of mental illnesses.
As like physical illnesses, in some cases it is preventable.

'Commit' suicide is very outdated and implies it is a criminal activity .

The menopause / perimenopause can be crippling and an absolute battle to get GPs to recognise the seriousness of it / acknowledge it regardless of age / blood tests etc .

Suicide in general should be discussed more openly and there is no evdece that asking someone outright if they are suicidal will 'make them do it' , yet the relief of them divulging it could be a major step in them getting help needed.

'Aren't obviously suffering'. Obviously is doing some very heavy lifting here.

You have zero idea if you think you can tell from the outside. People have all kinds of issues you wouldn't know about. Maybe abandoned by a parent; experienced DV or abuse in the home; been sexually abused; suffered from severe bullying in childhood; intrusive parents who infantilise you etc, etc. Many people who've experienced those things can function very well until they suddenly find themselves under severe life stress and all their coping mechanisms fall apart.

You are far more likely to suffer from depression /anxiety/even physical illnesses if you've had adverse childhood experiences. It's not about being a snowflake whatever the Daily Mail would have you believe.

You can't understand because you have (fortunately) obviously never been there. It's not rational. I suppose it's like when people have an eating disorder and think they are fat when in fact they are dangerously underweight. You can't appreciate what you have and you certainly don't feel lucky. All you feel is raging despair and for some an intense anxiety and panic that you just want gone.

I don't think mental health services are a primary reason here. I don't know if this is still the case, but not that long ago Sweden had one of the highest number of suicide cases. I don't think their health system was lacking at the time. Simplistic maybe, but there were reasonings that longer, darker periods might have been a primary cause for this, linked to depression.

I wonder if more research is needed around brain development, from as early as in the womb. Stress of a pregnant woman does affect brain development from such an early stage. (This information surprised me, I picked it up from a podcast with a Dr Daniel Amen who is a psychiatrist and some sort of brain specialist involved in research). Every single, big or small, physical and emotional, trauma does affect brain development in children and adolescents. It takes around 25 years for the brain to fully develop in a human. There are markers on the brain, which can be observed, showing if an individual suffered trauma during childhood. All such episodes shape the way an individual can 'deal' with life. So problems can start/set very, very early on in life and visible success doesn't necessarily change an individual's brain and the way they view and experience life.
A very, very delicate balance.
Also, Hormones affect women in so many unexplored ways and, for sure, the female brain is affected somewhat throughout all the different stages of a woman's life.

The reality is, we don't know enough.

My takeaway is that a safe, stable, secure, loving early life is about the only way we can ensure a healthy foundation is laid for an individual. Sadly, this is impossible for a vast number of babies and young children worldwide. And not necessarily through the fault of parents. The environment itself might be too difficult.

Then it's about innate personality which cannot be controlled or shaped. Not to mention unfortunate brain health issues.

Basically nobody can ever truly know how another person is feeling deep inside.
Maybe a society where people live closer together and feel more integrated or supported or valued could relieve this issue. I don't know the statistics from such societal groups.

Wow. This is so offensive. Lack of resilience and coping mechanisms? Do you know how much some of us have had to cope with? How long we've had to be resilient for? Fuck me.

I don't think anything anyone said at the time would have helped. I genuinely thought i was a burden. That I was ruining everyone else's lives, especially my children. So, I thought, that 'staying alive for them' wasn't a positive. They'd have a much better life if my mum could raise them. And in my darkest time I thought they'd be happier being raised by mum mum because in was dead, rather than because I had abandoned them somehow. I didn't want them to be able to try and find me. I wanted them to know I was gone. Gosh, that's hard to admit.

What did help was a friend making me a Dr's appointment, coming with me, and making sure the doctor knew exactly what I was planning. Insisting I got medication. Checking I took it.

I spent years telling myself i just had to stay alive long enough to see my DC to adulthood and then I could go. They are adults now and I'm so glad I'm still here. I want to still be here when they have DC, I want to know my grandchildren (if they choose to). Im so glad I didn't leave my children with that shadow over their lives. And whilst I definitely could have been a better mum, I've done the best I could with the resources I have. And my children are amazing.

to everyone who has shared their stories. I don't know you, but I'm glad you're still here too. And I bet your loved ones are as well.

@EmeraldRoulette

The original post says "Her poor mental was blamed on her menopause but apparently her mental health deteriorated a good few years before the change."

So in this case not started in childhood or suffered all the way through life. But quite possibly "the change" had started earlier than she / others thought.

FFS yourself.

But we don't know how long she felt this way, as many posters have said. Could be from age 12 or 20. Half the point here is this extremely insensitive "I don't understand suicide" approach is based on zero knowledge of the individual (s).

sadly, the obsession with menopause is labelling women more and more. I that's what it will say if I don't make 50.

I'll add to the apology note for whoever finds me "no it wasn't about meno or peri etc".

historically, women in my family have been happy with meno, like that character in Fleabag. If anyone is worried about it, please don't - many women thrive afterwards but it doesn't fit the current narrative so you hear less about it.

right...I have got to find a less depressing chat board for my "need to talk to humans" moments!

Because what you see as 'having it all' might have been an anchor around her neck.

@EmeraldRoulette

No we don't know how long she'd felt this way. But the OP says her mental health was attributed to menopause. OP also said her mental health had deteriorated "a good few years" before and I was opining that this still might be menopause, and started earlier than thought. I don't interpret "a good few years" before menopause as being aged 12 or 20. But I've also clearly stated that this might not be the case.

I haven't said anything about not understanding suicide. I feel very sorry indeed for those that feel that way.

"Sadly the obsession with menopause is labelling women more and more." What the fuck?!l. Good for you that historically "your family have been happy with meno". That doesn't mean that those having a very different experience are simply the "current narrative" or "an obsession". The irony of posting this dismissive language while in the same breath criticising those doing the same.

Please do sod off to a "less depressing" board.

Credit to you all
I know its tough in your job

This is so true
It also does need talking about

I fight it alone
Nobody irl knows because there is nobody
I write in my journal as a release
I sleep when I can

@OnlyOneAdda apologies.

i find this thread horrendously triggering and I'm sorry I took that out on you.

I suspect a lot of us suicidal types will struggle to keep away from the thread.

I'm going to log out now.